SHOOTOUT

[beenthere]

Arthur
Seems to me that would make some good sense. If lumber from a mill is miscut, and oversize, it isn't sent to the 'chipper'. It is tallied, and or sold, or remanufactured to the next size lower that can be marketed. If 4/4 lumber is the minimum thickness produced (sold), then anything less than that thickness would be 'chipped' (used to call it waste  ).

Any miscut 'thick' board reduces the recovery of lumber, so it still shows in the final results, without throwing it out (what I'd call a double 'whammy', like the way we are taxed).

[customsawyer]

About all I can say is that there were many differnt things that didn't make since to me on this shoot out.
1. WoodMizer cut most of there lumber with a blade that had hit a small nail so it would still cut just not very well. Why not take a time out and change the blade?
2. Baker ran a .042" blade harder than I would push my .055" blade
Both of these factors came into play by making wavy cuts. I'm more interested in quality than quanity.
In watching the grader I didn't see him throw any boards out that were to thin. I'm not saying he didn't just saying I didn't see it. I felt like if this is not a competition as I was told than why are we in such a hurry to make a poor quality board. Just my thoughts hope I didn't step on any toes.

[Arthur]

Both of these factors came into play by making wavy cuts. I'm more interested in quality than quanity.
In watching the grader I didn't see him throw any boards out that were to thin. I'm not saying he didn't just saying I didn't see it. I felt like if this is not a competition as I was told than why are we in such a hurry to make a poor quality board. Just my thoughts hope I didn't step on any toes.

we had a handfull of boards thrown out due to being undersized.  Most were just over.

There has been some discussions so far with a few realy good ideas already.  I will bring this thead up again when a few of these ideas have been agreed.

As for my personal views as a potential customer I would like to see a few changes.  As we only are required to cut 4 logs its become a race to see who is first to finish.

I would like to see the show over the entire 2 hours with how much you can cut in that period.  No timeouts for problems as you dont take time out in the real world, you stop and fixit. 

Also I would like to see pitstops where the manufacture is required to change their blade or band.

This would keep me there for the two hours as to just 15 or 20 minutes.  You get to see everyone having problems, log loading, etc,etc

arthur

[Gary_C]

This "demonstration" or what ever you wish to call it should simulate a real job with a real customer. What if you took your portable mill to a customer's yard and sawed his prized walnut or cherry logs and miscut his wood?  The penalties in the Shootout might be mild to what might happen if you had a "real world" customer. You would be lucky to get away with your mill, any money in your pocket, and all of your hide.

It looks like the need for quality work was sacrificed for speed, so maybe this should be just a wake up call for everyone.

[Fla._Deadheader]

I watched the entire shootout, well, nearly the entire thing.  : :

  I truly believe that the OPERATORS were the ones to initiate the competition. It looked to me like, they were all "Eyeballing" each others progress.

  The crowd was also talking about how much this team cut, compared to that team.  There was plenty of time, to have had 1 team at a time, do the sawing. There were only about a dozen machines set up to saw, in the entire shootout. The rest of the time, most were demo'ing in their assigned spaces ???

[NZJake]

I wreckin I'd have to agree on the costumer simulation idea, each saw gets a customers bunch of logs of equal quantity and a somewhat equal request of misc sized sawn timber, the jobs should be spaced through out the day to air the competitive anxiety.

At the end of it recovery, setup time, sawing cost and production all have to factor in. The results would then be put into a very visual graph beside each mill with its own story of the job.  What do ya wreckin?

[OneWithWood]

The shootout is always a fun event to watch.  It would be a whole lot more fun if there was some type of bleachers set up so everyone could see all the mills.  Some of us vertically challenged folks had a hard time viewing the event.

[Buzz-sawyer]

I would of enjoyed the shoot out a BUNCH more with NO anouncer or at least one that was at the same event we were :D :D :D :D

[Fla._Deadheader]

  Yeah Buzz, I had plumb forgot about that Dude.  ;D :D :D :D

[AtLast]

OK....here goes....the " numbers" speak for them selves"....Baker kicked some butt....time wise ( half the time as W...opps...the competitor" AND in both catagories......forget the edger thing...factor in the time  and production and it STILL seems to me that BAKER RULES.....as far as it goes on the demo thing or compitition thing...it ..the shoot out...has always seemed to me to be a compitition....after all...why do they call it a " SHOOTOUT"....

[Kirk_Allen]

The baker did a fine job but how do you factor in the extra horsepower it had over the others and the fact that they did not hit any nails, unlike some of the other folks. 

[Jeff]

There was no competition as the saws were not matched to classes.  I agree big time about that announcer. He was biased from the git go towards bandsaws. Someone doing that job should have been completely neutral. Even I wanted to pull his cord out of the amp.

[Arthur]

Jeff

Even I wanted to pull his cord out of the amp.

must add that one to my list of things to do to people. ;D

[NZJake]

Yep, Baker did KICK BUT... with an edger. I'm sure Baker did very well although it wasn't just the saw that pulled it off.

Next year I'll see if Kerris will allow us to just double cut the logs and send the slabs through Bakers edger? Thats not a sawmill anymore, its an operation.

The Shootout 'should' forget the edger thing, in my opinion. Apples for apples, 'sawmill' for 'sawmill'.

[Arthur]

NZJake

cant agree with you more. 

I have put forward the idea of running not for 4 logs but the 2 hrs allocated.  See how many logs you can actually saw in a given time not how fast you can saw a few logs.

No edgers, and time in the sin bin for needing to use mechanical means to load the logs onto the mill.  Afterall its a Shootout for PORTABLE sawmills.  How many trucks does it take to get the mill, front loader, edger, employees to the work site???

[Captain]

Arthur, the rules say 1....

[Buzz-sawyer]

It was anti climatic........it was NOT a competion whatsoever.....rather a showcase were you could see10 mils running simultaneously in in mildly  caotic fashion.
with someone who doesnt even know what is happening or much about the individual mils blathering on........
I was shocked to see edgers running.....and big diesel production mills that are barely what I think of as portable....up against little light weight rigs and simple chainsaw mills.....
I saw it as a marketing ploy to show mills and felt a little bit tricked....

[DanG]

That sounds like a good idea.  Stage the whole thing about 20 miles from the sawing site, and allow only one truck.  If they want an edger, let'em go back and get it, all with the 2 men allowed to participate.  It wouldn't be bad to make the folks using edgers to pick up their waste, like everybody else had to do, too.  For some reason, ??? they were not required to handle the waste from the edgers, while those that were edging on the mill had to place the waste in racks.

Let's face it, it is a competition.  Put the mills in classes and let them compete with similar equipment!

[Percy]

Shootout-smootout. IT would be great to go to one to meet a bunch of cool folks such as  yourselves but I would never buy a mill based on the results of such an event. Good to see how they all work, specially in one spot but "USERS RESULTS MAY VARY"...heh. We all have biases and prejudeces wether we realize them or not and for me, it wouldnt matter if  an LT70 came in last behind a manual Hudson, Id still buy the LT70, just like Captain would get the Peterson...no matter what. A real shootout would be like Arky and Tom  or Captai and NZ jake dukin it out side by side, all day long, each with a lazy offbearer and the cell phone ringin steady and a bunch of lookieloos tellin you how to do it better. :D :D

[Captain]

You know, Percy you're absolutely right!!  Now that is a shootout!!  :D

You know, the Sawmill/Woodlot Shootout Edition is a little slow off the presses this year....I just saw the draft Peterson writeup yesterday.  Guess they are getting close.

Captain