Replace my heatmaster c375 with ? Or keep it.

[Duce]

  I had  a heatmaster c375 installed in late October.  I have had on going issues with it since day 3. All. 3 are simple but have taken weeks each to get taken care of.  Resulting in 5 boil overs and a few days of missing work to tend to it. 
  
   The first one was a sticking silonoid.  It was intermittent and heatmaster said to lube it. Well after a few more boil overs the dealer came and replaced it within a few weeks. The first time I called would have save some frustration. 
   The door leaks a lot even after they replaced the gasket. On the 2nd replacement now hope it works.

   For the last month and a half when opening the back access door everything gets covered with ash. Its blowing out from the duct work.  It builds up and keeps the damper from closing causing yet more boil overs. The first time It happens my wife got on fb with Heat master at 12am and they answered and help find the problem.  I was impressed.
   I vacumed it out and thought that was the end of it. But it keep happening. I had to vacuum it out every 4 days or so.  
    Finally Heat master told me what look for and the dealer sent his boy out.   The problem is 3/16-1/4" gaps on both sides in the stainless plate in the back behind the shaker grates.  The gap allows ash and coals to fall directly into the duct work causing the issues. They say they can fix it. Its a simple fix, block the gaps. But...
    I have had this thing 4 months and not had a week go by without some issue.  All have been simple but its frustrating. 

I have had some issues with my dealer and I'm worried that the 5 boil overs were not good for the stove.  It heats the house and hot water great and I should have enough capacity to heat a high tunnel in the future. But I'm frustrated to the point of getting a diffrent brand.
  
     Heat master and my dealer offered to take my stove back at a small loss to me. That impressed me along with helping me with my boil over in the middle of the night. That makes me think maybe I should  let them fix it and keep it.

    That said if I replace it what should I replace it with. Hardy, heatmore, porter and main? And other recomendation?
  The other problem is dealers stocks are probably low this time of year and will take a few weeks to get in. But if they take the boiler back I will have no heat tell the new one arrives.  I need the refund to pay for the new one and don't want to have to fill the l.p. tank for the in between.

   I think I would probably keep it if the over fires did not hurt it long term and I could switch dealers.  Ther is one much closer than the one I bought from but I didn't know that at the time and thought more of my dealer before he installed and I needed his support.

   Guess I could take the loss and buy from the closer dealer getting one that has not over fired mulitipal times and get a different dealer for support.

   Thought and suggestion?
  

[GRANITEstateMP]

Your not happy with the product, they are giving you an out.  I'd send it down the road, lesson learned, find what will work next.  Filling LP might not be something you want to do, but it makes sense, and allows you to take time and buy the right replacement.  Dont be rushed into another unit you may not like.

[thecfarm]

What he said. ;D You are not happy with it,and you are thinking if this problem does get fixed,what's next?
I bought a Heatmor back in 2007. That was before any electonic was on it. A simple OWB. Just the Honeywell controllers to tell the blowers to come on. Those simple ones are long gone now. I looked at some OWB that had a bunch of digital readouts and solenoids and switches.. Those got crossed off the list. Now that's all there is.

[DDW_OR]

I agree, it looks like you got a Lemon.
what state are you in?


have you looked at the Central Boiler Edge?
I have an older one, wish i had one of the new Titanium ones.

Classic Edge Outdoor Wood Furnace | Central Boiler

install of my old one
NEW Central Boiler Install in Firewood and Wood Heating

End of year OWB cleaning in Firewood and Wood Heating

[Duce]

  I agree on getting a lemon and always 2nd guessing and never trusting it.

  Central boiler did not have an ash pan way back when I looked at them.  My in-laws had a indoor wood burner with no ash pan. It made me really like that feature on mine.  
  I'm in Indiana near Louisville ky.

[E Yoder]

I really doubt the boil over hurt anything. You'd melt wires long before you'd damage a rolled tank.
Were you shown how to adjust the door rollers to tighten the gasket against the door jamb?
I have seen the ash blowback be caused by thick ash on the grate. It chokes down and huffs and chuffs and blows back ash. Not saying that happened in your case though.
Just some ideas. I hate that you had a bad experience, those C models are typically pretty reliable units.

[hedgerow]

Duce Welcome
I can't speak good or bad about a heat master. I think all these OWB have there moments burning wood is a lifestyle. I did a lot of looking before buying my Garn I knew I didn't want to stand in the cold to load a boiler. I felt like what I paid for the Garn it was a more top line unit. It has been easy to run and wife will fire it. I thought it was a good boiler until Jan this year when I found it leaking. I am trying to get by until spring to drain it and find the leak and hope I can repair it. If your not happy with this unit now and can get most of your money back I would let them have it back and make sure you want the wood burning life style before you bought another one. 

[Crhall]

Duce,
Heatmaster knows of this issue. I'm not sure why they will not address it. There are 5 MF series stoves in my area that are having the same issue. Small particles of ash back draft up into the rear air channel that stop the trap door from closing therefore air is still feeding the fire then a boil over. My dealer has called and explained this many times to HM and they claim this is the first the have heard of it. I'm not sure how the C models are, but I think they are very similar to the MF. I have a wifi thermometer on mine that will send alerts if temp reaches to high, and I can usually get to it before something happens. 

Here is my next step. Lucky for me I work at a fab shop on the side, so this is no biggie to me, but might be for others. In short i'm basically going to build a spark arrester that will go into the air channel in the section between the damper and the trap door. A stainless steel screen would stop any and all ash particles from entering back through the trap door and not letting it seal correctly. I'm waiting till the off season to do it, but I plan on taking pics to share for anyone else that wants to stop this from happening. Right now I have about 3 other guys begging me to put it on theirs. They have 10-15 boiler overs this year due to this. I just wish HM would see they have an issue with this. It is such a simple fix. They could even build new air channel with spark arrester and send out to the customers who are having problems.

I'm not going to completely rip them (HM) apart because I do feel they do a great job with their boilers. I like the design and the fit and finish. But I keep hearing these issues and I feel a company needs to step up and take care of the customers. I hate to say it, I just look at one this weekend that was only 2yrs in service. He has a leak somewhere in the water chamber. I told him call them, show them the vids of the water and they will take care of you. 
They need to address this ash problem in the trap door. I'm hearing more and more of this problem every year. All its doing is hurting their sales. A bad word about a company will travel way faster than a good one. Just get on the forums, not many post how great things are going, they usually need help with problems!  

[E Yoder]

That's a great idea, crhall. It wouldn't stop fine ash but the bigger pieces it sure would.

[Crhall]

Yeah the dusty ash would still possibly make it through, but most the sizes I've seen that "shim" the flap is about the size of pencil tip. You would still have to check and clean one or twice a season because of the powder size ash, but I think it would help out a lot of these guys. I don't know. It just been happening with too many people just to be ignored. 

[Duce]

  The c series and MF are the same according to the heat master rep I have been talking to just the sticker and paint are diffrent. ( I'm thinking epa) 
  
     I had a good talk with my dealer and he was suggesting replacing the plate in the back with the gaps with one from a stove he has in stock.  Its tempting but I asked. If he would be willing to swap units.  Waiting on an answer back on that.
    I'm also waiting on a call back from heatmore & portage and main. 
  
      As to liking the wood burning life style?   I'm new to outdoor boilers not wood heating.  I have had an indoor wood stove for about 20 years.  Most with a Vermont castings duch west large.  That started when I was 18 and on all electric. My electric bill that first winter was running $350 & 400 a month to heat the 800 sq foot clap board house I was renting at the time.   I had a lot of wood from my tree trimming business in the pasture and a light bulb came on.  Installed a wood stove and my next electric bill was $65. Not just low cost or free heat but getting paid to hall my wood home is great.  
    I don't do as much tree work now and this year have just been cleaning up the farm( bought 2 years ago)  Years of neglect and the ash bore have keep me well stocked. I plan on getting back into it but will be starting my customer base from scratch since buying and moving to the farm.  Its 2 hrs from my old place and 2 decade customer base.

  Now the million dollar question every wants to know what brand to replace it with.   Every company will get a lemon out the door every now and then. So it boils down to me ease of use, dependability, and most important coustermer service and how they treat you if and when you do have an issue.  
     I am happy with how Heatmaster is offering to take back my unit. I would prefer not to take a loss but after reading a lot of stories from people having issues and how some other companies handeled stoves that have had leaks
it I'm surprised and fell lucky.  

   My neighbor has a heatmore and is happy with it. I like its US made with US steel and ti stainless.  I need to call him and take a closer look at it.
  
  I read a lot when researching on portage and main but the nearest dealer is near 3 hrs away.  Mild steel and havinglimited to no local support are the conserns I had so went with the heat master. 

  I " think" I like the refractory brick. I like they have no silonoid do fail and they have both a digital and manual temp controls for a back up.  

   Those are the two front runners beside staying with the  heatmaster.  How is there customer service? 
  Any other companys that go above and beyond I should look at?

      

   
   

[thecfarm]

I've had my Heatmor since 2007. I have really only contacted him for blower motors. He had a guy with him that installed it for him. That guy put pumps that was too big for my house. Seem that the water was coming back to the pumps too fast? All I know is I was going through a pump about one a month. Dropped down a few sizes,and the problems went away. That dealer gave me back the money for two taco 13 circular pumps and I went and bought 2 taco 8 and pocketed the difference which seem to be a couple hundred dollars. I know this is my dealer,but I just want to show you how many times I had to contact my dealer. I can just about count them on one hand. Not bad for a little more than 10 years.Dealer support is great,but buy the right one and you don't need dealer support. ;) Kinda like the sawmill I bought,Thomas,I bought a band guide roller off him. That is just about the only time I have needed dealer support.

[DDW_OR]

    I am happy with how Heatmaster is offering to take back my unit. I would prefer not to take a loss but after reading a lot of stories from people having issues and how some other companies handeled stoves that have had leaks

  My neighbor has a heatmore and is happy with it. I like its US made with US steel and ti stainless.  I need to call him and take a closer look at it.
 

since Heatmaster is willing to exchange. i would stipulate that if there is ANY issues with the new OWB during the 2019 - 2020 winter that you will get a FULL refund.

[ButchC]

I've had my Heatmor since 2007. I have really only contacted him for blower motors. He had a guy with him that installed it for him. That guy put pumps that was too big for my house. Seem that the water was coming back to the pumps too fast? All I know is I was going through a pump about one a month. Dropped down a few sizes,and the problems went away. That dealer gave me back the money for two taco 13 circular pumps and I went and bought 2 taco 8 and pocketed the difference which seem to be a couple hundred dollars. I know this is my dealer,but I just want to show you how many times I had to contact my dealer. I can just about count them on one hand. Not bad for a little more than 10 years.Dealer support is great,but buy the right one and you don't need dealer support. ;) Kinda like the sawmill I bought,Thomas,I bought a band guide roller off him. That is just about the only time I have needed dealer support.

Typical unkowledgeable OWB dealer mistake. Install oversized pumps so they last longer,,, thats what my (ex) dealer tried to tell me when I bought mine. Luckily I knew better and  contacted TACO for sizing. The pumps they recommended  were 2 and 3 sizes smaller than the dealer.  My 007 and 011 pumps are on thier 13th season.  Pumps like to work and will last the longest when working the hardest while providing the needed flow. A person needs to know nothing about pump science, all he needs is accurate site specs and contact his favoured pump manufacturer. 

[Crhall]

I had a good talk with my dealer and he was suggesting replacing the plate in the back with the gaps with one from a stove he has in stock. Its tempting but I asked. If he would be willing to swap units. Waiting on an answer back on that.

What plate are you referring to? the plate behind shaker grates? that is where they claim ash is falling into the air system?

[E Yoder]

If you wanted to test it for a few days I guess you could lay a piece of thin sheet metal across that plate/spacer behind the grates. It wouldn't last long in the heat but you could pinpoint the problem.

[Duce]

Yes, the plate behind the shaker grates. The gap is 3/16-1/4" on each of the sides. Not a gap between the shaker ggrates and the plate/duct. 
   The gaps allow the ash and coals to fall directly into the duct work. Its plan as day the plate dose not fit correctly on the sides. 

[E Yoder]

Makes sense. I'm thinking a couple feet of 1/2" fire rope jammed in the crack might do wonders. I understand your frustration tho.

[gspren]

Makes sense. I'm thinking a couple feet of 1/2" fire rope jammed in the crack might do wonders. I understand your frustration tho.

That sounds like a quick and easy way to try something without altering anything. Maybe your dealer would give you the rope.

[Duce]

  Yes I thought about covering the back with a piece of sheet metal to cover the gaps.  I didn't think about gaskets.  I did shoot some high temp caulking in the gaps thinking it would slow it down. It took a few months to build up enough to the level to start the issue.  I think I have bought some time.

  Naturally the dealer wants to pick up the stove and refund at the same time not before so I can get the replacement here at the same time.  I don't blame him.
    The portage and main guy didn't call back.  So I had decided heatmore it will be but..... He has not called back with the price of the 400 He has in stock. Still at a stand still. So far the stove is heating the house and my temp fix is holding.  

[hedgerow]

I hope the heatmore works better for you. If I were you I would get that dealer out there and get that stove pickup and get the money before someone changes there mind on buying it back. Its getting late enough in the heating season using your back up for a while won't be too bad. Now you know what brand you want as the weather warms up maybe a dealer will have one out there they want to move for a discount. 

[Duce]

  Yes I thought about covering the back with a piece of sheet metal to cover the gaps.  I didn't think about gaskets.  I did shoot some high temp caulking in the gaps thinking it would slow it down. It took a few months to build up enough to the level to start the issue.  I think I have bought some time.

  Naturally the dealer wants to pick up the stove and refund at the same time not before so I can get the replacement here at the same time.  I don't blame him.
    The portage and main guy didn't call back.  So I had decided heatmore it will be but..... He has not called back with the price of the 400 He has in stock. Still at a stand still. So far the stove is heating the house and my temp fix is holding. 

  I spoke with the heatmore dealer and his price was $1,500 higher than the heat master was out the door  before tax, fees, the pump, and blower all said more than I'm willing to spend so heatmore is out .   I sent the CEO of portage and main a txt.  I will see what his response is. 
  Its looking like I may just stay with heat master, weather its fixing mine or replacing it with another of the same model unit depending what my dealer is willing to do.( still waiting on a response from him I bet he has forgot).

[hedgerow]

I would sure get it straighten out with your dealer. If this keeps dragging on you will be out of sight and out of mind with the company and the dealer. I don't think your going to up grade to a different brand for the same money as your are going to get back from the dealer. Hope it all works out the way you want it to. 

[Duce]

Update:
  Since heatmaster offered to stand behind their product I decided to stay with them so...
     Heatmaster sent my dealer out in early spring and he welded the gap up.  All seemed good but I shut it down shortly after for sumer.
    I fired it up this  fall and within a week  of firing it I got home from being away at work for 3 days(wife fills when I'm gone she is not observant)& water was dripping out of the ash pan and the gage was on empty.  I filled it up and called heatmaster.  They offered to repair or replace the unit.  When my dealer called to schedule bringing the  replacemen I asked him if it was another new unit he had repaired the gap in like mine.  He danced around saying it was factory  new a few min not wanting to tell me then finally it was revieled yes he had welded on it.
   
     When he was welding  on my current  stove it came out he had never had a welding test, it did not leak before  he welded  on it so no I don't want another stove he has fixed. 
    Either I will get a factory new one or have to attempt to find a heatmore in stock close that may be difficult . The door on the 375 also leaks often I have replaced the gaskets as has the dealer twice.  I think the large 24×24 doormat be more prone to warp?  The heatmores had a water filled door avoiding this.
  The advantage I have this year is I have tie cash to buy a new unit not needing to wait on a refund on my old one in order to pay for the new one.  We will see but I'm beyond tired of dealing with my dealer.  My blood pressure  goes up just talking to him.

Heatmaster has gone beyond my expectations in their attempts to fix the issues and satisfy me.  Yet a different brand may be the best option for now.
 
  What brand would you all recommend?  I'm looking at heatmore and Portage and Maine.   
  I like them both but like the forced air system without a solenoid on the p&m but wonder  how long the fire brick and mild steel will last? The heatmore is stainless not sure how much better if any that is or if its prone to cracking?
    Guess if I can get a refund I could just build a big new pole barn house and drop the cash on geothermal!  But I like being debt free🤔

[DDW_OR]

the new Central Boiler 750 uses Titanium stainless steel. it is MUCH easier to clean and maintain compared to the First Generation of 750

Classic Edge Outdoor Wood Furnace | Central Boiler