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Notch depth and type on heavily leaning tree

Started by Jeff, October 21, 2011, 03:43:12 PM

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lumberjack48

I've cut many thousands of leaning trees. the only safe cut i found was the Ole box cut, never got stuck or had a barber chair with this cut

Jeff that sounds like quit a project, the main thing is to stay safe

I figured i was one of the best, but there were a few times i had to tuck my tale in and walk away, i wasn't insured if things went bad.
Third generation logger, owner operator, 30 yrs felling experience with pole skidder. I got my neck broke back in 89, left me a quad. The wife kept the job going up to 96.

WH_Conley

Walking away sounds like the smartest move. I wouldn't touch that mess.
Bill

zopi

Yeah...1200 would be a steal jist based on what I see...probably go closer to 15 or 16 down here...
Got Wood?
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And lots of junk.

zopi

Quote from: WH_Conley on October 22, 2011, 03:39:22 PM
Walking away sounds like the smartest move. I wouldn't touch that mess.
I live for that kind of mess...more fun than a video game...can actually kill you if you screw up. lol
Got Wood?
LT-15G GO chassis added.
WM sharpener and setter
And lots of junk.

SwampDonkey

Quote from: DonT on October 21, 2011, 09:26:37 PMjeff Jepsons book,it is called the "stick trick" based on the Pathageran(sp) theory finding the length of an unknown side of a triangle,I think it is Asquared is equal to Bsquared is =C squared

Don, I think you are actually trying to use similar right triangles with the stick method. You take something like a broom stick, extend your arm straight out front, elevate hand to eye level. Take the broom stick and hold it horizontal from your eye to your elevated hand. Note the position (length), flip the broom handle vertical with the end from your eye to the top. You now have an right angled isosolese triangle: two sides,two angles equal. Using the principle of similar triangles step back from the tree until the top of the broom handle and your line of sight line up with the tree top. Measure the distance between where your standing to the tree trunk, add height to eye level from ground (5.5' ??). Don't have to worry about math with this method because your angles are 90-45-45. Tangent 45 is 1, so only have to measure distance from observer to tree and add eye level. But of course a leaner provides a challenge as it is not truly vertical. But if you add the distance from the tree base to the standing position where the tree top is directly over your head, it should compensate. Of course this assumes level ground to.

Dodgy Loner makes an explanation in this thread with a drawing.

https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php/topic,36600.msg530736.html#msg530736
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

madmari

All this math has made me thirsty :P

I tried the stick method once and very nearly was hit when the tree went by. It is un-nerving aiming the stick as the tree falls towards you.
I know why dogs stick thier head out the car window.

smwwoody

Jeff,

Take a look at this page.  http://sharplogger.vt.edu/onlineCE.html  Click on the basic chainsaw safety and directional felling online course.  I think they do a real good job for an online course.  It is a CE course for Virginia's sharp logger program but anyone can take it just leave your sharp logger # blank


Woody
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Ianab

Quote from: madmari on October 22, 2011, 07:09:46 PM
All this math has made me thirsty :P

I tried the stick method once and very nearly was hit when the tree went by. It is un-nerving aiming the stick as the tree falls towards you.

You are supposed to poke the stick in the ground, and casually tell the audience that's where the top of the tree will land  ;) :D

If you get it right, it should hit the stick. If you miss.. well there are any number of excuses.  "Didn't want to bust a perfectly good measuring stick"  ;D

I'd not be concerned about taking down those trees, IF there was no valuable targets nearby. As soon as you mention sheds, power lines, other wanted trees it gets tricky. I'd walk away from that as well. Get someone that can climb or has a bucket truck to take them out in pieces. If you can get them to just piece the tree down, and then clean up the mess yourself you will save a lot of $$

Ian
Weekend warrior, Peterson JP test pilot, Dolmar 7900 and Stihl MS310 saws and  the usual collection of power tools :)

zopi

Oh yes...if I do not have to haul out the remains...my prices take a dive...unfortunately I do not get to do that much...most cities require the company to remove their waste...it is part of contract law in some plaves as well...but I get one every now amd then...drop, buck, and walk...love those.
Got climbing jobs both monday and tues day of next week..simple ones though...good pay too.
Got Wood?
LT-15G GO chassis added.
WM sharpener and setter
And lots of junk.

Jasperfield

Kevin,

When cutting using the Coo's Bay method; Do you cut the two side cuts straight in or do you notch them?

And, whether straight in or notched, do you cut perpendicular to the tree or make the cuts level?

Thanks

Reddog

I am  not Kevin.

But will answer, straight in just a saw kerf, perpendicular to the tree.

Kevin

For small trees I would prefer to use a triangle cut to reduce the tension.
You still use a face cut with a hinge which keeps the tree from rolling out of control.


Autocar

I might as well add my two cents  :D  I put a small notch then bore all the way though and get the falling hinge lined up. Pull my saw out and where the flares of the roots inter the ground I will saw into them this will keep the pressure of the leaning tree from pulling  the root system out as it goes over. Then I put the saw back into the bore cut and swing it on though. Root systems can grab you and take you for a wild ride so it's important to clip the roots on the high side of the tree.
Bill

Meadows Miller

Quote from: Ianab on October 21, 2011, 04:12:57 PM
Personally - Shallow notch, just enough to allow you to form a hinge, then bore cut it.

Ian

Ians spot on there just about a 1/4 scarf back cut 1/10th then bore cut the guts the little bit holding it up will let go when its ready whilst leaving you with a good hinge to control its fall  ;)

Regards Chris
4TH Generation Timbergetter

SPIKER

Jeff:

One thing I have seen on my place with some red oak similar to those maples was when one was coming down the opposite side broke out and all 4 ended up splitting out when the 1st one came down.   lucky none came close to me when they came down.   the root ball split something I had not seen prior but first time with a quartet of heavy leaners..

these were deep in the woods oak, the center opened up between them and all 4 went in opposite directions... I left them figure they are fire wood even though nice size with the lean I would guess they would twist like crazy.


Mark
I'm looking for help all the shrinks have given up on me :o

Kevin

Mark;
That might have been root pull, it usually happens when the cut is close to the ground and the hinge wood is over a root.
They can split deep into the ground, stall the fall in a narrow face which could easily barber chair or pull the tree to one side.

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