Notches and felling

[swampwhiteoak]

Loggers of the present and the past help me out

I'm don't drop trees very often because I'm not in that end of the business.  Occasionally I get an opportunity to do a little felling and I quite enjoy it.  

When I fell, I have always used an open faced notch.  It seems to be the safest to me and safety makes me comfortable.  

The other day, I got to thinking about it wondering why people would use a conventional or humbolt notch.  The only advantage I see is knowing that the hinge is going to break before it hits the ground.  Is there any other advantage?  And what are the advantages of using a humbolt notch over a conventional notch?  I assume the humbolt got its name out west, is it a superior method for very large trees?

[Corley5]

Open, Humboldt, Conventional?  I've cut my share of trees and I guess I'm not even sure which notch I use ;D  I'm happy as long as they land where I want 'em .  Looking forward to more on this.  

[Frank_Pender]

  Swamp...  I have only been cutting for about 42 years.   I have used just about every method of putting a face on a tree you could think about.  However, the safest kind of face is the Humbolt  Cut.  I feel it provides of the following: 1. limiting the chances of the butt of the tree to come back onto the stump, 2. limiting the chances of the tree from going to either side of the stump when hitting the ground, 3. loss of or deduct from your log if you use the conventional facing, 4. a fine from the saftey inspectors here in Oregon.    I know of a situation just recenting where the inspector showed on a "logging side" and he actually walked out as farr a 100 yards from the road to instpect the stumps to make sure they were all Humbolt Cut faces.  There can be a hefty fine if they see the incorrect facing on a stump or the but of a log.  So, here in my "neck of the woods" the Humbolt is considered the safest and the most economical (fines) (lost of deduct) method to use.

[swampwhiteoak]

Sorry, Corley, I just assume everyone knows what I'm talking about.  You know what they say about assuming ;)

Someone here at the office suggested to me to look on an OSHA website.  That never would have occurred to me, but they have some pretty good explanations.
Notches
http://www.osha.gov/SLTC/logging_advisor/manual/felling/cuts/notches/notches.html

When you use an open faced notch the hinge won't break until the tree hits the ground (or real close).  With the other two notches the hinge breaks on the way down.

You might need to speak a little slower, Frank.  I'm afraid I'm a little dense on this subject.  I could see that a humbolt notch would save a little more wood.  But if the hinge breaks halfway down, isn't it more likely to kickback or roll?

I won't argue the safety inspector angle.  You gotta stay away from fines, I just don't understand why the humbolt is the safest.

[Corley5]

OK, I've been educated :D  I use the conventional notch almost exclusively.  I have used variations of the other two at times.  That's a good link.  It does a good job demonstrating how the notches work.

[Bibbyman]

My dad was the best I've ever seen at felling trees.  He used the conventional notch but added quite a few other details.  

The bottom of his notch would be about 4" under the back cut.  He would then take the point of the sawbar and make a cut about 4" deep in the bottom and center of the notch about 1/3 across.  This would leave a hinge on the outer two corners but would reduce the chance of pulling a splinter out of the heart area.  He would then score each side of the notch just through the bark on each side. This would assure that the hinge would not pull a big splinter off the outside of the stump.  

If the tree had any more than a slight lean,  he would "plunge" cut it.  This is, instead of just sawing through the back side towards the notch until the tree fell,  he would poke the sawbar through the center of the tree and cut up to where he wanted to leave a hinge and then back until he had an inch or more hanging on the back of the cut.  At this point,  he may have placed a wedge in one side or both - if he thought he may need some additional control on the fall or to influence the direction.  He would then check to make sure the fall area was clear and find his safety route away from the tree and then cut the last link on the backside.  999 out of a 1000 would fall all the way to the ground where he expected without causing damage to valuable trees in the area.

He worked alone felling thousands of hardwood trees over 70 years and has yet to suffer an injury although he's had some close calls with limbs flying back or fall out later.  

I've showed him some videos of fellers using the methods demonstrated and he commented that they may get by with that felling pine tress but they'd get themselves kill trying those methods alone on hardwood.

I've tried to use his methods and can pretty well duplicate them but I don't have the instinct to read the lean of the tree, etc.  Dad and taught my son how to fell trees and he has it down pretty good.  Must be a talent that skips a generation.

[Ron Wenrich]

I don't know of anyone using a humboldt notch here in the East.  Usually, it is too hard to get a notch out of the stump.  On flat ground, the humboldt notch would give you a higher stump height.

I've had a Swedish notch explained to me a couple of years ago, but can't recall it off hand.  I'll have to research that one.  It is supposed to be a super safe way to cut trees.

I've also seen inexperienced cutters bring their backcut down in a 45 degree angle.  That lets the tree sit on a point.  It never seemed to safe to me.  I've always used a conventional notch and carry wedges, just in case.

[Frank_Pender]

Bibbyman, Your father is absolutely correct when he said that it is not the best for felling most all all of the hardwood trees.  They truely are a different critter all together.  I am looking out the window right not at our second snow storm of the season.  Flakes, the size of half dollars coming down.  It has been like this for about an hour and we have a good inch already.  Anyway, thank your father for doing a fine job of teaching his youngin and his grand-youngin how to fell trees, in your neck-of-the-woods in a safe manner. ;)

[Don P]

Great link Swamp 8)
I'm pasting it all over the log building boards, homeowners often clear for themselves.
Now will someone explain why a Humboldt is dangerous in hardwood?

[Larry]

Bibbyman, your dad was was way ahead of his time on felling trees.  This is the same technique that is taught at the Game of Logging training put on by the Missouri Forest Products Asn. except they teach the open face notch.

The "plunge" or bore cut is great as it lets you get the hinge exactly the right thickness and then cut to the back of the tree and and leave a little 1" strap of holding wood.  The tree will stand forever until you cut the strap.  This gives you plently of time to look around and make sure the falling area is clear and check your escape route.

I bore cut almost everything anymore and have not noticed any wear on the tip of the bar.  Also bore cut when I cut the top of the tree off as you can reduce bar pinchs and spliting of whe wood when it is in a bind.  

In the school I went to they also taught some special limbing cuts called the tongue & groove and top lock.  On the tongue & groove you also make a bore cut.  The school was well worth the money and sure made felling easier, more productive, and much safer.
Larry

[Bibbyman]

When son Chris got his first logging job,  we took Dad over to the site to give us benefit of his experience (and to get him out from in front of the TV for a couple of hours).  We walked up to a nice red oak that defiantly leaned towards two nice walnut trees about 10"dba and 30' to the first limb.  Some 30 degrees to the right was a small clearing of what was once a logging road.  Chris and Dad went over the situation and Chris asked him how he would fall the tree into the clearing instead of on the walnuts.  Dad took a yellow lumber crayon that he still carries with him at all times and marked where to make the cuts and what to leave where and explained the reasoning and what to expect.    :P

When Chris got started the next week,  the landowner came down to see how he was going about it.  It turned out that the first tree Chris fell was the one his Grandpa had laid out the game plan for him.  The landowner noted that the tree leaned this way.  But Chris pointed out the two nice walnut trees that were likely to be smashed down if it fell that way and that he intended to pull it to the right into the opening. The landowner clearly had his doubts.  But Chris did what his Grandpa told him and the tree fell as planned.  The farmer expounded:  "Wow!  You couldn't have guided that tree down better if it had a steering wheel on it!"  

The landowner soon left to join his buddies at the coffee shop.  Chris cut timber for most of them by the end of summer.  It sure helps a lot when your first effort is a success.  :

Oh,  why is the Humboldt cut dangerous for felling hardwoods?  As I've said,  the art of tree felling has skipped this generation but I'd say it would have to do with the additional weight of hardwood,  the crown configuration,  and a higher percentage of them leaning a little to a lot.

[Don P]

I love it you guys are saving me money and underwear. I posted on one site last nite and checked in this morning and a handscriber had put up a piece on The Game of Logging. It wouldn't load just now but I'll cut and paste later, a good read.
You got company Bibbyman, thats why she called the arborists around the homestead. :D


Bummer, I cut it in half and squished it...too long :-/
If anybody wants it just E-mail, I'd be more than happy to pass it on.