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The start of the end for verso????

Started by Woodhauler, September 23, 2015, 08:03:58 PM

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Woodhauler

Stopped trading on stock market now! Talk is bankrupty is coming in November.
2013 westernstar tri-axle with 2015 rotobec elite 80 loader!Sold 2000 westernstar tractor with stairs air ride trailer and a 1985 huskybrute 175 T/L loader!

Peter Drouin

 I will say all the W Pine and Hemlock pulp has no where to go from here. Just the guys with the big Chippers feeding the power plants. And they're cutting back some and the price is going down.
I know some loggers not cutting Pine or hemlock, and that makes it hard for me to get logs.  They're all on hardwood.
A&P saw Mill LLC.
45' of Wood Mizer, cutting since 1987.
License NH softwood grader.

coxy

 with every one cutting hard wood your way now  wonder if it will impact the hard wood market price

Corley5

  Our hardwood markets in Michigan have taken a hit.  Everything from pallet bolts to veneer is down.  Some pallet mills don't even want hardwood.  Hardwood pulp hasn't changed but a lot of it from the N. Lower goes as firewood anyway.
Burnt Gunpowder is the Smell Of Freedom

HiTech

It's going to get tough. Not many paper mills left. The price of doing business in America got too costly for the Greedy CEO's. Everything got moved offshore where regulations are few and far between. Seems the USA is the only one worried about Global Warming or pollution. The little St. Regis Mill in Deferiet, NY used to buy lots of pulp from the New England states and locally as well. The farther you hauled it the more you got. Seems they would chew up around 360 cord a day. We are now a nation of cell phones and call centers.

grassfed

Quotebankruptcy is coming in November
I had heard this over the summer from the folks at the wood yard where I sell my pulp. They thought that once the bankruptcy started that there would be a better chance that they would start buying wood again. Of course it is hard to tell but if it is Chapter 11 reorganization type then this makes sense If it is a chapter 7 liquidation then it is all over unless someone new buyers the mill and wants to run it.
Mike

timberjackrob

I hear they are closing mill in western ky my first cousins husband works there said they be done by the end of the year.
208 timberjack, woodmizer lt28,case 455 trackloader with gearmatic winch,massey 4710, ford f250s ford f700

petefrom bearswamp

I pass by the Deferiet mill often on my way to hunting camp.
Back in 58 they made all the yellow pages paper.
Sad to see how the site has deteriorated.
Kubota 8540 tractor, FEL bucket and forks, Farmi winch
Kubota 900 RTV
Polaris 570 Sportsman ATV
3 Huskies 1 gas Echo 1 cordless Echo vintage Homelite super xl12
57 acres of woodland

SwampDonkey

All the text type books I have bought the last 3 years are all printed in China. A sign of what's happening. And this is from American book publishers.
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

thecfarm

I hate to hear all this. I'm only about 15 minutes from Verso in Jay and whatever that one is in Rumford now. Seem both of these are bought and sold every few years now.
The biomass plant is just about 15 minutes away,but that is not help unless they start to produce more power.  :(
Kinda scary hauling pulpwood to Jay. Are they going to pay???
Model 6020-20hp Manual Thomas bandsaw,TC40A 4wd 40 hp New Holland tractor, 450 Norse Winch, Heatmor 400 OWB,YCC 1978-79

wfcjr

Quote from: HiTech on September 24, 2015, 09:04:19 AM
It's going to get tough. Not many paper mills left. The price of doing business in America got too costly for the Greedy CEO's. Everything got moved offshore where regulations are few and far between. Seems the USA is the only one worried about Global Warming or pollution. The little St. Regis Mill in Deferiet, NY used to buy lots of pulp from the New England states and locally as well. The farther you hauled it the more you got. Seems they would chew up around 360 cord a day. We are now a nation of cell phones and call centers.

It's not merely "Greedy CEO's".  It is also American consumers who are unwilling to pay the price required to support American jobs.

Bottom line... the cost of doing business in the United States keeps going up.  This is particularly true in New England.  Thank the regulations, rules, restrictions, taxes etc.  The clowns on the left keep driving up the cost of gov't.  The clowns on the right have this juvenile belief that markets are free and open.  Markets should be free and open but they are not.

It is not a level playing field when US companies have a slew of gov't imposed regulations and costs that have nothing to do with the "free market".  Companies from other countries, particularly non-European, do not have the same set of Western regulations, taxes, etc.  It is not a level playing field.  A nation cannot impose all these rules and regulations on business and then let products into their borders that do not have the same regulatory burden.  The outcome is both predictable and inevitable.

For the record, some of our Western regulations, rules, etc. are good and necessary.  Others just add to the burden.

Do the math.... a government with an insatiable desire for tax revenue (highest total tax burden of any Western nation, highest corporate tax rates), misguided regulators piling on rules, foreign corporations that do not have the same regulatory and tax burden, tariff free borders (for the most part), and American consumers who do not want to pay extra for anything.

.... and we wonder why we lose jobs....

In the case of Verso, however, they have some other things stacked against them.
Coated Groundwood:  paper used extensively in Sunday paper magazine inserts and advertising.  We all know what is going on with print newspapers... declining readership, declining advertising revenues.  The "Parade" Sunday insert is a shadow of what it once was.

Coated Premium and Supercalendered:  primary uses in glossy advertising.  Auto industry at one time was the single largest consumer of coated and supercalendered papers for their glossy car brochures.  They are printing fewer and fewer of them as more information and advertising moves on line.

In our own industry, we print and use fewer catalogs. (Heavy text & cover, coated papers for our print catalogs.) 
Sure we have a few for reference, but more & more is moving to .pdfs as we all know.

So some is for sure regulatory, taxes, etc.  Part of it is the changes in the way we create, deliver and consume information.  Will paper advertising every disappear?  Probably not.
Is it a growth industry?  Definitely not.

petefrom bearswamp

Kubota 8540 tractor, FEL bucket and forks, Farmi winch
Kubota 900 RTV
Polaris 570 Sportsman ATV
3 Huskies 1 gas Echo 1 cordless Echo vintage Homelite super xl12
57 acres of woodland

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