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Insert tooth

Started by brb, November 17, 2012, 09:14:58 AM

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brb

Going to look at a old circle mill and was wondering what style insert tooth is most desirable or what should I stay away from?

Charles135

brb, I found this manual somewhere on the forum.  It is full of good stuff.  Beginning on page 12 it discusses the headsaw and components and part of this is variety of teeth and what the best saw.  I hope you find it as interesting and valuable as I did. 
charlie
Charlie
Foley Belsaw M-14, JD MT, Massey Harris 44, F-30 Farmall, A JD, 3203 JD, 5300 JD, JD 4039 Power Unit
Serving the Thin Blue Line Since 1998

captain_crunch

Far as I know not much difference in the way they cut. I only know of 2 styles Simonds and Hoe Belive they call them Style A and style B  Imagine there are others but these are the ones around here. Our friends at Menominee saw is who I would ask Click on them on left side of page
Good luck
I need to get ambitious and get my Belsaw fired up today but at present got the Lazies ;D ;D
M-14 Belsaw circle mill,HD-11 Log Loader,TD-14 Crawler,TD-9 Crawler and Ford 2910 Loader Tractor

DanG

I wouldn't worry too much about which pattern the teeth are.  Some are getting a little harder to find than others, but you can still get them.  There are lots of other things on an old mill that are of more concern.
"I don't feel like an old man.  I feel like a young man who has something wrong with him."  Dick Cavett
"Beat not thy sword into a plowshare, rather beat the sword of thine enemy into a plowshare."

sparky

Disston teeth are very difficult to find as they were dropped when the company was sold years ago.

Sparky
I'tnl 2050 with Prentrice 110, Custom built 48" left-hand circular and 52" Bellsaw right-hand circular mills, Jonsered 2171, Stihl 084, and too many other chainsaws. John Deere 3020 and Oliver 1800 with FELs. 20" 4-sided planer and misc.

Jeff

Like DanG says, don't be concerned about the tooth pattern of the saw, or let that be your decision maker at looking at the mill. That's just a tiny factor in the scheme of things.  You can always call our Sponsor Menominee saw, and they can let you know what bit styles that are unobtainable.

Here is a good post from Ron on saw patterns.

Quote from: Ron Wenrich on February 06, 2003, 02:48:42 PM
Tom

You made me go to the research library, since I couldn't give a reliable answer off the top of my head.   :D

There are 2 types of saw and shank configurations on a circle saw.  One is called the single circle and the other is called a double circle.  It refers how the shank and tooth fit in the saw.  Single circle are designated by numbers and double circle are designated by letters. Single circles are recommended for softwoods and soft hardwoods.  Double circles are recommended for hardwoods.

The smaller numbers are used if you are running smaller logs.  These patterns are 2 1/2, 3, 3 1/2, and 4 1/2.  On letters, you have F, B & D.  These are the ones common today. 

On single circles, the shank and tooth fit in one single circle.  On a double circle, the shank fits in one circle, and the second circle holds the tooth behind the shank

Shanks are made from spring steel and they hold the shank and tooth in place.  Summer shanks and summer teeth will form a round gullet.  That works good for many cutting situations.

But, in winter, you need to slow the sawdust down in the gullet so it doesn't spill out over the sides.  A winter shank has a bulge where the shank meets the tooth.  This disrupts the round gullet and causes the sawdust to swirl in the gullet (so I'm told).

Standall bits do the same thing, but they have the bulge in the tooth.  When standalls are coupled with winter shanks, you then have a summer shank/tooth configuration with a much smaller gullet capacity, and defeats the purpose of using either the bits or shanks.

The letters and numbers also refer to the size of the shank.  Jeff uses an F style tooth, and has 50 teeth.  I use a B pattern with 46 teeth.  I have 1 1/2 times the gullet size in the B pattern than the F.  It helps me feed a little faster.  I also run bigger logs, and you need the added gullet capacity.

We had a discussion a few years ago about the term swage and the spelling.  Like Deadheader, I rarely swage, except to repair teeth.  I also hand file, and can put a little lead into the teeth if it is needed. 

We put no set in the circle saws.  Our set is basically the width of the saw tooth.  They are "V" shaped.  That gives the needed clearance to prevent rubbing of the saw.

Lead is where the front of the saw is a little more into the log then the back of the saw.  This prevents the eye from heating up, by the log running past it.  The eye of circle saws are thicker than the rim. 

I bought a disk of several sawmill books over at ebay a couple of months ago.  I believe I paid $6.  Its called the Sawmill Handbook Collection and contains Circular Sawmills & Their Efficient Operation; Uses for Sawdust, Shavings and Waste Chips; Electic Moisture Meters for Wood; Dry Kiln Operator's Manual; Drying Hardwood Lumber; and Air Drying of Lumber.  These are all older USFS Research Books.  Very worthwhile and useful for the money invested.
Just call me the midget doctor.
Forestry Forum Founder and Chief Cook and Bottle Washer.

Commercial circle sawmill sawyer in a past life for 25yrs.
Ezekiel 22:30

brb

Thanks everyone. Great information. I did get a chance to go look and it had F style teeth, 48 inch blade. Comes with 3 1/2 boxes of inserts. The rest of the mill was complete some good some in need of rework, as most mill I have looked at are. Nice three block carriage. Everything on steel, husk and rails on channel and I beam. Nameplate on it i have never heard of before. I will get pictures soon as I can.

Thanks again, Brian

Jeff

Certainly no problem with f pattern.
Just call me the midget doctor.
Forestry Forum Founder and Chief Cook and Bottle Washer.

Commercial circle sawmill sawyer in a past life for 25yrs.
Ezekiel 22:30

GeneWengert-WoodDoc

2-1/2 and F are very good sizes as they are about 9/32" wide.  Others are even wider and so take more power.  You need a Jockey grinder to sharpen.  Note that the saw is designed for a specific size and the bits should be changed one at a time as the shanks are specific to their location and to a specific bit style.
Gene - Author of articles in Sawmill & Woodlot and books: Drying Hardwood Lumber; VA Tech Solar Kiln; Sawing Edging & Trimming Hardwood Lumber. And more

ALWOL

   The style of bit has nothing to do with the width of the bit. Most styles, both double circle, and single circle, are available in widths from 1/4" to 5/16". The width of the bit is governed by the gauge of the saw, and its state of tune. For example, I run 9/32 bits on my 52" 7/9 gauge saw with style B, and 1/4" bits on a 44" 11 gauge saw with style 2 1/2.
   I hope this does not cause anymore confusion. :)

   Alan
There's a big difference between staying busy and making money.

Jeff

While having a jockey grinder is nice, its not at all a necessity.  Standard bits can be adequately sharpened with a file, as long as you pay close attention and maintain the proper angles of the bit. I used a jockey for years but did my fine tuning with a file.
Just call me the midget doctor.
Forestry Forum Founder and Chief Cook and Bottle Washer.

Commercial circle sawmill sawyer in a past life for 25yrs.
Ezekiel 22:30

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