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Author Topic: A public service announcement from someone not so smart.  (Read 1773 times)

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Offline ChugiakTinkerer

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Re: A public service announcement from someone not so smart.
« Reply #20 on: February 08, 2018, 07:59:37 PM »
I used a Mr. Heater Big Buddy a couple years ago in a popup ice-fishing shelter.  I wrote about the outing on the DooTalk forum and there was a lot of interesting conversation about propane heaters and the relative dangers.  This post had a lot of useful information:



The bottom line on use of these heaters in an enclosed space are:
1) Ventilate.  They aren't designed for indoor use so use caution
2) Use one with an oxygen depletion sensor (ODS)
3) The ODS _should_ egage when the O2 gets below around 19%
4) Heaters with ODS burn very cleanly down to about 18% oxygen.  Below that and they start producing carbon monoxide.
5) Always have a CO monitor when using one of these indoors.
Woodland Mills HM130

Offline Bill Gaiche

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Re: A public service announcement from someone not so smart.
« Reply #21 on: February 08, 2018, 10:22:05 PM »
It can happen. I was building my bandsaw mill in the winter inside my shop. No heat nor insulated. Seemed to me at the time there was plenty of holes and air leaks for fresh air while welding with my gas welder. Not so, got real dizzy. Wife took me to emergency room. They put me on full oxygen for about 4 hours and taking blood to check the oxygen level in my blood. They would not release me until they were satisfied. SO, trust me it is a serious thing about carbon monoxide poisoning. Had a co worker welding under a canvas tent on heavy equipment with a diesel welder. They had to take him to the emergency room also.bg

Offline YellowHammer

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Re: A public service announcement from someone not so smart.
« Reply #22 on: February 08, 2018, 11:04:01 PM »
As Ianab says, CO binds with the hemoglobin in the blood stream and prevents it from binding with oxygen.  That particular red blood cell won't release the CO so won't carry oxygen anymore and is essentially taken out of service, forever.  So even if you go outside, if enough CO has gotten into the bloodstream, there won't be a recovery.  Very dangerous.

I'm glad it turned out OK.  A good reminder to all of us. 
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Online John Mc

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Re: A public service announcement from someone not so smart.
« Reply #23 on: February 09, 2018, 09:25:43 AM »
Actually, CO does not take hemoglobin out of service forever.

the affinity of hemoglobin to CO is 230 times that of oxygen to CO, so the CO binds preferentially to the hemoglobin. As long as you are continuing to breath CO, the CO will continue to displace more and more oxygen in carried your bloodstream by the hemoglobin. This is why the most important thing is to remove the victim from the CO-contaminated area as quickly as possible

The normal half life of CO in your bloodstream is over 5 hours when breathing normal fresh air, so if you have a dangerous dose, just getting out in fresh air can still leave you in danger. Administering oxygen through a non-rebreather mask shortens the half life to about 80 minutes. This can be a very important difference, so if you suspect significant CO poisoning, get medical help immediately.

Also, if someone is passed out in an enclosed area, be very aware that if CO is an issue, going in after them has the distinct possibility of simply increasing the victim count. Take steps to minimize your own exposure.

Gee - I guess all that confined spaces training from back when I was supervising an area which included a pit containing several large gas-fired annealing furnaces must have stuck with me. (I did have to go back and look up the numbers again)
If the only tool you have is a hammer, you tend to see every problem as a nail.   - Abraham Maslow

Offline brianJ

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Re: A public service announcement from someone not so smart.
« Reply #24 on: February 09, 2018, 02:42:31 PM »
Thank You John for the typing out the facts.

Offline YellowHammer

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Re: A public service announcement from someone not so smart.
« Reply #25 on: February 09, 2018, 03:48:59 PM »
Very useful information.  I was not aware of the 5 hour half life. Still, thats a long time if exposure has occurred.

Thanks

 

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Offline r.man

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Re: A public service announcement from someone not so smart.
« Reply #26 on: February 09, 2018, 11:01:58 PM »
A construction supervisor died in my area about five years ago, went into a new basement to fill up a heater in the evening and didn't make it out.
Life is too short or my list is too long, not sure which. Dec 2014

Offline Ianab

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Re: A public service announcement from someone not so smart.
« Reply #27 on: February 09, 2018, 11:22:54 PM »
Good info John, I didn't have the actual figures, but I knew that CO poisoning went on for hours after you get into fresh air. If you get out yourself, chances are you eventually recover. But if someone is so far gone they lose consciousness, they NEED medical attention ASAP. They can be breathing fresh air, but still suffering brain damage from the low blood O2.

Simple lack of oxygen (from CO2 / nitrogen / Halon etc) is a bit less dangerous as your body can still absorb oxygen once you get into fresh air. CO messes with your ability to take in O2 to the bloodstream for some time.

And 100% on the "don't walk into the same trap" advice. Several times there have been multiple fatalities because someone sees a man down and goes to help, and they keel over themselves.
Weekend warrior, Peterson JP test pilot, Dolmar 7900 and Stihl MS310 saws and  the usual collection of power tools :)


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