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Surfacing equipment for slabs

Started by Blackhawk1, December 27, 2017, 11:10:29 AM

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tule peak timber

From my chair , moving forward in the slab market is done with a little caution. Rob
persistence personified - never let up , never let down

scsmith42

Quote from: tule peak timber on December 30, 2017, 09:08:25 AM
From my chair , moving forward in the slab market is done with a little caution. Rob

Agreed.  With everybody getting into it the prices are bound to drop, along with demand.
Peterson 10" WPF with 65' of track
Smith - Gallagher dedicated slabber
Tom's 3638D Baker band mill
and a mix of log handling heavy equipment.

tule peak timber

I've been seeing several indicators here for the last year giving rise to caution. Look at a lot of the threads here on FF. Luckily I have years of dried slabs laid up and they are selling well but also a large number of buyers simply calling for pricing-not buying. The price and competition for large logs is insane. Several visitors a month come here wanting to know how to slice off " $20,000 slabs", dry them quickly, and will I do " it " for them. YIKES !!!!
persistence personified - never let up , never let down

longtime lurker

yeah, same here. I will still contract saw you slabs but no way will I cut and hold stock on my own account anymore with them. The market is oversaturated with the smaller bartop size pieces to the point where people are selling slabs cheaper then the value of the boards I could rip out of them.
Bigger stuff isnt moving much. General domestic economic conditions more then anything I think - people arent spending much.
The premium/ export market is steady but as we all know thats only a small fraction of the market and it can be a long way between sales.

I wish I had $1 for every tree that was going to cut $20k slabs people have tried to sell me.

The quickest way to make a million dollars with a sawmill is to start with two million.

tule peak timber

persistence personified - never let up , never let down

nativewolf

I'd agree on the cautionary tales.  It may be a good time to be a furniture maker rather than a slab wood seller.  Or, like TulePeak develop extraordinary expertise in finishing and presenting the slabs.  Lots of folks slab and don't know how to finish and the end product is pretty ho hum to poor.
Liking Walnut

redbeard

I will keep slicing the big logs thick and wide leaving the live edge on while this market lasts. Because you can always make boards, beams, cants and the big plus is finding the figured wood too cut out of the slabs. 3"-5"-6-1/2" are safe thickness too still recover sellable product. Hot seller right now is live edge shelving 1-1/2" thick . Able to resaw some of the plain Jane slabs that don't sell well and make shelving.
There are several big league slab sellers in NW Washington that have wharehouse full of wide slabs and they air dry for two years then dry either DH or vacuum. Some species work well Vacuum kiln straight from mill others don't. Color is a big factor.
Recently visited urbanhardwoods.com
Some beautiful tables they sell

  

 


Whidbey Woodworks and Custom Milling  2019 Cooks AC 3662T High production band mill and a Hud-son 60 Diesel wide cut bandmill  JD 2240 50hp Tractor with 145 loader IR 1044 all terrain fork lift  Cooks sharp

POSTON WIDEHEAD

Red Beard....what are their prices on these tables?
The older I get I wish my body could Re-Gen.

TKehl

I'm with you guys.  If I was going to drop $17k, it would be on a large CNC router instead of a single function machine. 

The CNC may be slower (lower HP), but would run unattended and have additional potential revenue streams to ride out market fluctuations.
In the long run, you make your own luck – good, bad, or indifferent. Loretta Lynn

redbeard

 Poston  You could buy a nice LT 40 or TK 2000 with bells n whistles.
Whidbey Woodworks and Custom Milling  2019 Cooks AC 3662T High production band mill and a Hud-son 60 Diesel wide cut bandmill  JD 2240 50hp Tractor with 145 loader IR 1044 all terrain fork lift  Cooks sharp

YellowHammer

Quote from: TKehl on December 30, 2017, 07:58:38 PM
I'm with you guys.  If I was going to drop $17k, it would be on a large CNC router instead of a single function machine. 
The CNC may be slower (lower HP), but would run unattended and have additional potential revenue streams to ride out market fluctuations.
smiley_thumbsup
Versatility in a machine is importatnt.
Redbeard, I'm seeing the same thing as the live edge shelving is hot, and being used for the cast iron pipe "steampunk" style shelves and furniture.  Classes are even being taught at the Big Box Stores locally.  They sell the pipe, fittings, and paint but don't have nice looking wood for the shelves.  What a shame because we have a rack of ready made shelves, 4 foot long, 8/4 live edge one side, jointed edge the other, faced and planed.  Employees who work there tell people to come see us if they want something "different".  Nice thing is, people never only buy one shelf. 
YellowHammerisms:

Take steps to save steps.

If it won't roll, its not a log; it's still a tree.  Sawmills cut logs, not trees.

Kiln drying wood: When the cookies are burned, they're burned, and you can't fix them.

Sawing is fun for the first couple million boards.

Be smarter than the sawdust

Blackhawk1

After reading through all the information I am now leaning to a CNC router table for the 20K I will be spending, versatile and I can produce other product with a CNC table

Now for another question what CNC table manufacture for the 20K price range?

Quote from: TKehl on December 30, 2017, 07:58:38 PM
I'm with you guys.  If I was going to drop $17k, it would be on a large CNC router instead of a single function machine. 

The CNC may be slower (lower HP), but would run unattended and have additional potential revenue streams to ride out market fluctuations.
Doug Caroselli
512-738-1770

Andries

Quote from: YellowHammer on December 30, 2017, 08:44:30 PM
Quote from: TKehl on December 30, 2017, 07:58:38 PM
.. . The CNC may be slower (lower HP), but would run unattended and have additional potential revenue streams to ride out market fluctuations.
smiley_thumbsup
Versatility in a machine is importatnt.
Redbeard, I'm seeing the same thing as the live edge shelving is hot, and being used for the cast iron pipe "steampunk" style shelves and furniture.  Classes are even being taught at the Big Box Stores locally.  They sell the pipe, fittings, and paint but don't have nice looking wood for the shelves.  .....
I was surprised at my local big box store while Christmas shopping.
Vacuum dried, live edge slabs - in plastic wrappers!

They're produced in Quebec, and sold waaaay out West, here in Manitoba.

They're probably noticing the attendance at the "steam punk"  :D seminars and decided that there's money to be made.
Good advice in this thread re: market conditions will re-direct equipment purchases - 'cause this market seems to have shifted.
Anyone else notice these products in their area?
LT40G25
Ford 545D loader
Stihl chainsaws

Andries

The famous Poston slab for $300.00 is now mebbeee worth $140.00?
:D  ;)
LT40G25
Ford 545D loader
Stihl chainsaws

YellowHammer

Well, I'll be! :).   They must have been reading this thread.

Just checked the Home Depot website, approximatly $6.70 per bdft for Canadian White Pine, single side live edge.  I've been selling my pine live edge for $6, but up to 20 inches wide.  I still beat their price point.  They would not have introduced a new product stream in a saturated market, so I'm thinking the demand for 8' x 2.5" x 8"-12" is about to go up.  I'm glad I have my 20" SCMi facer/jointer.  Tule Peak, I may need to go ahead and get one of those CoMatic Jointer Feeders you helped develop.
YellowHammerisms:

Take steps to save steps.

If it won't roll, its not a log; it's still a tree.  Sawmills cut logs, not trees.

Kiln drying wood: When the cookies are burned, they're burned, and you can't fix them.

Sawing is fun for the first couple million boards.

Be smarter than the sawdust

Crusarius

if looking at cnc routers you have 2 different type.

you have flat table router style that has a sacrificial MDF table that vacuums that suck the part to the table through the MDF. These work very well for large items. The only time I have had issues with them is when I start with a 4x8 of white melamine and start cutting drawer parts out of it. The more cuts you make through the stock the less vacuum there is to hold it in place. These can be had relatively cheap and have a bunch of tool holders. the last one I used had 8 positions. The biggest cutter we used was a 6" flycutter for smoothing the MDF when it got to rough from cutting cabinet parts.

The other style is point to point. this uses a series of vacuum pods that hold your piece in place. These work very well you just have to be much more careful if you are penetrating the board so you don't hit the rails or pods.

The flat table is quite a bit more versatile especially with what we would all be thinking of using it for. you can get lots of different configurations. 1 table 2 tables this gives you the ability to load one table while the other is running. The sizes have gotten pretty large to.

Another great feature of the flat table is sign making. throw a slab on the table, surface it, then cut whatever the customer wants. That is where the 8 head toolholder comes in very handy.

I was exposed to all these fancy tools when I used to work for a bunch of cabinet shops. The general construction was adjustable shelf holes with dowels and then clamped together. Just basic casework. but the flat table router really excelled being able to throw a 4x8 on the table cut all the parts to size and then drill all the adjustable shelf holes in one step. The guy we had running the cnc also did our plastic laminate layups. he could layup 2-3 sheets in the time it took to cut 1 sheet of cabinet parts. Worked out very well for use. the guys building never had to wait for parts.

21incher

About 2 years ago I sketched up a router sled I will be making to fit on my mill someday when I get the time and extra money. It will be a cnc setup controled by GRBL using steepers that will be a belt drive and use an Infinity planer bit in a big PC router. Just drop it on the mill, tension the x drive belt to the mill tracks, set 0,0 on the slab corner, choose the proper  lenght x width code and watch it run. Self contained and runs on 120 volts and will be between 300 to 400 pounds. It will also be useable to make large signs just like a 12 foot x 24 inch cnc router :)
Hudson HFE-21 on a custom trailer, Deere 4100, Kubota BX 2360, Echo CS590 & CS310, home built wood splitter, home built log arch, a logrite cant hook and a bread machine. And a Kubota Sidekick with a Defective Subaru motor.

Crusarius

Quote from: 21incher on January 02, 2018, 08:23:47 AM
About 2 years ago I sketched up a router sled I will be making to fit on my mill someday when I get the time and extra money. It will be a cnc setup controled by GRBL using steepers that will be a belt drive and use an Infinity planer bit in a big PC router. Just drop it on the mill, tension the x drive belt to the mill tracks, set 0,0 on the slab corner, choose the proper  lenght x width code and watch it run. Self contained and runs on 120 volts and will be between 300 to 400 pounds. It will also be useable to make large signs just like a 12 foot x 24 inch cnc router :)

I am really interested in following the progress on that. I have thought about something very similar. Now that I have a 50" mill bed that would make life quite a bit easier.

TKehl

I can't say much on CNC in that price point.  Much more $ than I could budget and haven't investigated.  (My current CNC router is a homebuilt 2'x4' model for about $1k.  I use clamps and T slots instead of vacuum hold down.  My dream setup is either 4x8' or 5x10' from CNC Router Parts would be about $6-8k all told.)

For commercial models though, I hear good things about Thermwood and Laguna.  Thermwood also has a program where people can use their FREE design software and send the file to participating Thermwood owners to cut on contract.  Like hitting the print button, but for cabinets.   ;)

Shopbot Tools is middle of the road for price, has a great reputation, and is US built.  If the weight capacity of their table matches what you have planned, it could be a great option.
In the long run, you make your own luck – good, bad, or indifferent. Loretta Lynn

redbeard

http://yasengineering.com/
Here is a Australia product slab master looks to be well built.
Whidbey Woodworks and Custom Milling  2019 Cooks AC 3662T High production band mill and a Hud-son 60 Diesel wide cut bandmill  JD 2240 50hp Tractor with 145 loader IR 1044 all terrain fork lift  Cooks sharp

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