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Pay per click advertising

Started by David Freed, May 04, 2008, 05:12:54 PM

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TexasTimbers

Okay I misunderstood your first post sorry. There are MANY things to consider. I have been giving alot of general info, let me ask you this - is your category highly competitive?
The oil is all in Texas, but the dipsticks are in D.C.

David Freed

I make custom flooring, wainscoting, and accessories. I know there are hundreds of places that make the cheap, short junk, but I don't really know how many places take custom orders. As I said before, one of my keywords only got 10 ads, but the same 10 kept repeating in a never ending cycle.

As a side note, a couple posts ago you said something about spending my money on these ads. That is the point, my ad is not there to click on so therefore I am not spending any money, but I am also not reaching any potential customers. I think the adwords system has me messed up somehow. As I said before, they show that I have entered my keywords, but the keyword anylizer says that none of the keywords i check in it are associated with my ad. It sounds to me like they have them but they can't see them.

TexasTimbers

Quote from: David Freed on May 12, 2008, 10:03:58 PM. . . one of my keywords only got 10 ads, but the same 10 kept repeating in a never ending cycle.

I'm not really understanding that exactly. You mean only got 10 "hits"? That's not necessarily bad unless it is supposed to be one of the keywords you thought, or Google suggested, as one of the higher % searched for your category.

Quote from: David Freed on May 12, 2008, 10:03:58 PM
As a side note, a couple posts ago you said something about spending my money on these ads. That is the point, my ad is not there to click on so therefore I am not spending any money, . . .

Yes I realize that. I am thinking out loud on this just typing as I think. I mean more specifically of wasting time (that is money to me)  i.e. running campaigns that are not producing. That is lost money in the form of energy and time. In business i make little to no distinction between them as they are all DIRECTLY related. I typed that when i was under the wrong impression you ran a campaign on one single keyword. I didn't read your post correctly just scanned it. My bad.

Have you tried the  "Edit Campaign Negative Keywords", " Keyword Tool", or the " Ads Diagnostic Tool "? These are under yout Tools menu. If you haven't used them do so. If that does not help (will take a day or two to tell) you are going to get an automated email from Google telling you they have noticed your campaign was paused, and are you having problems? etc. use the link to get a free counsleing session. It could resolve your problkem and you won't have to pay for one of the "Hire a Specialist" offers listed in your account summary or wherever it is.

You do have some issue but I don't know enough to help you. My gig is pretty simple because when someone uses a few of my popular keywords esp "flame boxelder" they aren't window shopping they are ready to spend. The jig isn't too far behind. My conversion rate on the wood is way above average and the jig is above also just not as high as the wood.

On the other hand, your market is specialized to a degree, but I think might be getting mixed in with the laminate flooring marketers and that is not your crowd. they are shopping on price. youneed to sell on quality to "discriminating buyers" etc.

It could be that hiring one of those "Ad Specialists" would be the best money you ever spent, but try the free Google techs first. I used them twice on issues not related to keywords or ads appearing and was satisfied both times with the knowledge and level of cooperation i got. they te slammed alot but my two experiences were good ones.

Best of luck. I know you will get it figured out if you don't quit.
The oil is all in Texas, but the dipsticks are in D.C.

David Freed

I'm sorry that I'm not explaining very well. I know exactly what I mean, but somewhere between my brain and the keyboard there must be a short in the wiring. Also I am trying to do 2 or 3 things at the same time I'm typing
(just like right now).

When I say one of my keywords gets 10 ads, I mean 10 different ads from 10 different companies, not mine. Page 1-8 ads, page 2-2 ads, page 3-8 ads page 4-2 ads. You see each companies ad 35 times in 70 pages by typing one of my keywords, but my ad doesn't show. I sent a message to the adwords people yesterday, but no response yet.

I read the adwords help file you linked to, but it didn't soak in because I had to hurry through it. I'll read it again later. I know I need to do some more reading, but I'm always on the run the first few days of the week. It took me about 5 flybys in about 2 hours to get this typed.

TexasTimbers

Quote from: David Freed on May 13, 2008, 03:41:55 PM
I'm sorry that I'm not explaining very well. I know exactly what I mean, but somewhere between my brain and the keyboard there must be a short in the wiring. Also I am trying to do 2 or 3 things at the same time I'm typing
(just like right now).

Brother you aren't preaching to the choir, but certainly a former member of it. My delivery from ADHD came when I married a nurse who put me on (got my doctor to) medication (Adderall is what worked for me) for it. I lived with it for nearly 48 years. It has changed my life. I am not perfect but I no longer get so distracted i can't think, or continue to put 12 irons in the fire before I even get one taken out.  It sounds like you might have the same blessing. :D 

I realize it is not possible for a total stranger with no credential sitting 1000 miles away (or whatever we are) to diagnose someone with even a head cold, but when i read the above paragraph I knew, word for word, EXACTLY what you are going through. Maybe you are just busy right now and that is the end of it, but I have to throw it out here for you to chew on since if that IS the case, man you have no idea what you are missing out on. I can wake up now and think of 5, 6, 7, things I need to accomplish today and not write them down (I would always lose the list when I tried that anwyay). Most of time I get most or all of them done. On the days I forget my medicine there is a very noticable difference.

I just had to mention that because it's nothing to be ashamed of at all if it turns out to be the case. It's a chemical thing - not a choice.


Quote from: David Freed on May 13, 2008, 03:41:55 PM
When I say one of my keywords gets 10 ads, I mean 10 different ads from 10 different companies, not mine. Page 1-8 ads, page 2-2 ads, page 3-8 ads page 4-2 ads. You see each companies ad 35 times in 70 pages by typing one of my keywords, but my ad doesn't show. I sent a message to the adwords people yesterday, but no response yet.


If I am understanding you correctly, this is normal. You are not going to have a whole sidebar to yourself. "Your" keywords are not "yours" and do not belong to you.  ALL of the websites and forums and ads and articles and blogs etc. that are related to hardwood flooring are going to have the keywords "hardwood flooring" as part of their keyword list. As part of a marketing strategy, many companies will plug their competitors' url into a keyword optimizer/analyzer type program (available free online no downloads necessary) to see what keywords got them to the front page. it isn't JUST the keywords that do it but they play the  major role.

You can also choose bad keywords of course, and use paid services i.e SEO companies that will charge you mucho with no results. Also there are many things you can do to dilute your keyword list that would otherwise seem to be good ideas.

But the main point I want to make is you could not afford to buy a whole sidebar on Google even if they offered it. I have never heard of it. Sometimes when you see only one or two ads it's because the other ads hit their daily limit, or its a category with few ads, etc. but i do not believe Google even ofers a option to buy up an entire sidebar for an adword campaing. I would think you would have to be Coca Cola to afford it. Stand to be corrected as usual though.
The oil is all in Texas, but the dipsticks are in D.C.

David Freed

About me;

The upside - In high school I took college prep courses just to be in my friends classes. I had no intentions of going to college, never took a book home, and always made the honor roll. In more recent history, if I get an idea on how to build something, I don't need it on paper. I see the plans in my head. My Woodmaster is an example

The downside - I can be looking right at you while your talking, and you might have to repeat something more than once for me to get it. I can get so focused on something that you almost need an air horn to get my attention. This conversation is another example. I can't count how many times I have tried to explain something to someone that I know is smart, and I can't make them understand (I figured out it was me a long time ago).

About adwords;

I don't want the whole column to myself. I would be happy if I was number 11 after those other 10. I will try another angle. Is it possible to have an adwords account that says it is active, but it will never show, no matter what keywords you enter in a search, or how many pages you look through on each search?

After this I  will quit talking about it. I am taking too much of your time to explain.

TexasTimbers

Quote from: David Freed on May 13, 2008, 05:50:44 PM
Is it possible to have an adwords account that says it is active, but it will never show, no matter what keywords you enter in a search, or how many pages you look through on each search?

I think so. If your campaign has enough "conflicts" - my word, never seen it used in Adwords - I think it would be possible. I don't know that I could resolve your issues but I'll take a crack at it if you want. If you do email me and and we could go over your account on the LL and discuss a couple other things I have in mind.


The oil is all in Texas, but the dipsticks are in D.C.

Hokiemill

Hey guys, thanks for having this conversation.  It's been educational at a time when I need to be educated.  A somewhat related question for you - do you feel that direct ads on related sites that rank high are worthwhile?  I'm on the opposite side of the fence here.  I hope to have a topical website up and running in a week or so and I think that direct ads would make the site much more appealing than the adsense ads.  But I really have no idea what would make direct advertising appealing to someone and what sort of pricing structure is acceptable.  I guess it all comes down to the clicks they get.

David Freed

Apparently I have the Midas touch; everything I touch turns into a rusty muffler. I am showing up on page 1, 2, or 3 on most of my keywords for over a week, and I haven't had 1 click on my ad yet.

Patty

For what it is worth, David, you need to give folks a reason to click on your ad. What does your ad say?
Read it carefully and decide if you would click on it for more information if you were the buyer. Or better yet, let someone else read your ad and tell you if they would click on it. Allow them to critique the ad for you, and don't take the critique personally, they are just being helpful and honest. Nothing worse than asking for an opinion, and then getting angry about the response.

Also, in my experience it is wise to be in the #1 or #2 position on page 1. The further down you are, the less likely you will get clicks.
Women are Angels.
And when someone breaks our wings....
We simply continue to fly ........
on a broomstick.....
We are flexible like that.

David Freed

Here it is (minus my website). I tried to give as much info as I could in the small space they give you. I tried to word it to weed out bargain hunters. I am not in business to make cheap flooring . I don't mind criticism because it isn't working as is.

Custom Hardwood Flooring
Modern, rustic or distressed. Wide
plank or strip. Lengths up to 12'




johncinquo

After reading all that,




You made me HAPPIER I hired someone else to do it!    :D 8)
To be one, Ask one
Masons and Shriners

David Freed

John,
If you don't care to say, how much do you spend on advertising?

TexasTimbers

I am always tinkering/exploring with advertising - paid and free. Free is better when it works.

The landscape changes quickly on the internet. Often when you get a great response from an ad or new exposure somewhere you can get inundated with orders. But it's best to do steady exploration even when you hit your fulfillment cieling and don't need any current advertisement, so that when you do need some more orders, you have an idea where you want to be using your money and/or time and don't have to start from scratch.   Easier said than done but you *can* achieve this sort of approach if you keep at it. You'll get better each month.

Even in the short time since I have posted on this thread, I have no longer have any intention of another adword campaing. I am not saying I will never again use adwords because overall I still come out in the black, but the best bang for the buck is not always found on google.

The best things in life are often free, and sometimes the internet is no exception. Lots of ways to skin cats David. Don't wear Google blinders. Patty is correct about ad copy though. No matter where you hang your shingle, it has to grab the prospect.


Adwords you can :-* my grits.  For now at least.  ;D

The oil is all in Texas, but the dipsticks are in D.C.

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