Using a log loader to handle Christmas trees

CHill8903 · July 19, 2019, 09:29:46 PM

I'm playing with the idea of taking a farmi log loader and rear mounting it on a hay wagon running gear to help handle our larger Christmas trees this year during harvest season.

Currently the trees come off the baler and are piled on the ground. We come back with a wagon and load by hand then load them on a semi trailer by hand. The trailers are flatbed w/8' stakes, we drop the trees down from a loading dock alongside the truck from above the stakes.

This is a lot of hand labor, especially for 9'+ trees. My idea is to follow up with a loader to pick up the trees off the ground and stack the trees on the wagon. (Think of a forwarding trailer but with a deck and long enough to handle two rows of trees). We could also hopefully use the loader to pick the trees directly off the wagon and place them on the truck.

My question is for you guys experienced with loaders, what type of grapple would work best for gently handling and sorting baled Christmas trees. I'd like to pick up 2-4 at a time, weight shouldn't be a concern, but I can't squeeze them into the grapple like you would logs. I also can't spear them with the tips of the grapple. I'm thinking there's something better than a standard bypass grapple. Any ideas?

Also any concerns with the plan in general? Loader would mount to the rear of the wagon to give it more reach/flexibility, and would run off tractor hydraulics. Any input would be appreciated. Thanks.

Riwaka · July 20, 2019, 01:08:20 AM

Christmas trees - pallets/ fork machine or conveyor belt straight in the back of the truck trailer.
DUTCHMAN TREE FARMS | LOADING 160 SEMI'S - YouTube

Christmas tree palletiser
Christmas Tree Palletizer - Packaging Machine - YouTube

As the truck trailer might be 8 foot wide as an internal dimension, so for your 9 foot trees. Side load into a curtain side trailer rather than end load.

or

Shipping container - prepack into a 20 or 40 foot open side container, if your container -crane truck can pick up a Christmas tree loaded container from the ground.

20' Open Side Shipping Containers For Sale - Full Side Access

Shipping container truck crane loader.
Side loading a 40ft container in less than 25 seconds. - YouTube

CHill8903 · July 20, 2019, 05:49:24 AM

Thanks for the reply. I'm aware of the palletizers however they don't really fit our business model, and actually cause some extra logistics problems with all the different sizes/types of trees we sell. We're not sold on the fact that they don't damage the trees.

mike_belben · July 20, 2019, 06:07:37 AM

Make a sawhorse cradle or three to accumulate the bailed trees so you arent ground picking them.

Mechanically limit the grapple jaws either by chain or structural metal means so you cant crush stuff, if simply being a careful operator isnt enough. A 2 way flow control valve in either of the grapple tine work ports will slow things down if your loader is just too fast. Or idle the engine down on your power unit so its all a slow process. You wont hardly need any PSI to lift Christmas trees.

Skeans1 · July 20, 2019, 06:38:34 AM

We actually did this about 20 years ago with the bypass grapples that come on a farmi crane. If you're going to be doing it a good amount I'd recommend putting the valve in the back window of the tractor with a seat that can be turned around one for operator safety and two for efficiency. When grabbing out of the piles you'd close just till you saw the limbs come in slightly then you normally could load that tree or trees into the bunks of the trailer.

Riwaka · July 20, 2019, 10:49:09 AM

Cradle on small low trailer, gather up baled trees with CTL, webbing slings under bundle of baled trees in cradle
elebia - electric hooks gather/ release on slings, load on larger trailer with farm crane (no grab necessary) (with side bolsters) pull out webbing slings to reuse on next bundle. (no-body lifting too much, too far)

elebia hooks
Automatic Engage & Release of Big Bags with Automatic Hooks 2 | Smart Lifting Solutions | Elebia - YouTube

palletised systems can use roller trailers etc = efficient handling (though with the expense of pallets) or no pallets and just two long planks tied together and pull whole box trailer load of baled tree bundles out at once onto warehouse roller raised ramp?

roller deck box trailers
TRAILER SKATE SYSTEM VIDEO - YouTube

CHill8903 · July 20, 2019, 04:39:49 PM

Mike, I've definitely thought about limiting the grapple as an option if it would be a problem, we're on the same page there. As for sawhorses, we're constantly moving through the fields so it would be nice but not practical to move them along with us as we bale.

Riwaka, we're not always clear cutting so most times we have a 14' road to work from. No room to maneuver a CTL to load a trailer in the field. That's the beauty of the log loader, it's flexibility in a small space and no extra ground disturbance, mud is a big concern for us also, no one wants muddy trees.

mike_belben · July 20, 2019, 06:20:43 PM

Gotcha. When i baled Christmas trees 25+ yrs ago we boys dragged them to a stationary bailing cone. How are you doing it, the bailer is coming along with you out in the field?

Skeans1 · July 20, 2019, 06:29:55 PM

When we still did them we would use an evergreen tree baler with a 20' table or a stand up ring baler that mounted on the front of the skid steer both were done in the field.

CHill8903 · July 20, 2019, 09:32:18 PM

The way we typically operate currently is to pull the baler hooked to the back of the wagon. Trees get dragged to the edge of the roads between patches, trees go through the baler and onto the wagon. The system works well for trees up to 8' but the big trees are a chore to throw onto the wagon by hand.

btulloh · July 20, 2019, 09:40:27 PM

Conveyor

CHill8903 · July 20, 2019, 11:21:46 PM

2 problems with a conveyor from baler to wagon.

We load two stacks on the wagon end to end. The conveyor couldn't load the front stack, still leaving a man/2 on the wagon to load the front stack, every tree would still need to be put into place by hand.

Also the conveyor would need to be able to be highly adjustable to go around tight corners, up/down hills, and still put the trees in the right place and not get hung up on obstacles.

btulloh · July 20, 2019, 11:32:34 PM

It's a tough one alright. It seems like a grapple and is just too big, slow, and unwieldy. It wouldn't take a lot of mechanical advantage - maybe 4 or 5 to one - to use a man-operated, light-weight knuckle boom apparatus mounted a back corner. Something fairly light and nimble. Would need to be fabricated from scratch or adapted from something similar. A perfect job for a robotic arm. Except for the development cost.

I understand the weight thing. My Ruritan club sells Christmas trees every year and the big ones are hard for us to handle. On the weekend we solve the problem by using Boy Scout volunteers. Unloading, we hire the football and wrestling team from the high school. The trees are lot lighter when they're lifting them. :D

Riwaka · July 21, 2019, 07:49:10 AM

Can get light botex tractor roof cranes with squirt booms. Figure out how to get the trailer past the loader tractor on the track some how (cut side alleys for passing) so you are loading into a clean area, no mud splatters etc. (baler on the front? of the crane tractor)

botex light roof crane
Botex 580 Forester Roof Mounted Loader - YouTube

Skeans1 · July 21, 2019, 07:58:12 AM

Quote from: btulloh on July 20, 2019, 11:32:34 PM
It's a tough one alright. It seems like a grapple and is just too big, slow, and unwieldy. It wouldn't take a lot of mechanical advantage - maybe 4 or 5 to one - to use a man-operated, light-weight knuckle boom apparatus mounted a back corner. Something fairly light and nimble. Would need to be fabricated from scratch or adapted from something similar. A perfect job for a robotic arm. Except for the development cost.

I understand the weight thing. My Ruritan club sells Christmas trees every year and the big ones are hard for us to handle. On the weekend we solve the problem by using Boy Scout volunteers. Unloading, we hire the football and wrestling team from the high school. The trees are lot lighter when they're lifting them. :D

When we did trees a small year was 10k every tree was 9'+ on a noble fir that's 3 to 4 guys per tree at 10-11' trees. We did this exact setup with a forwarding trailer behind a 4x4 tractor it works and works very well, time wise I could load it faster and be back out to grab another load before a stand trailer could be loaded.

Quote from: Riwaka on July 21, 2019, 07:49:10 AM
Can get light botex tractor roof cranes with squirt booms. Figure out how to get the trailer past the loader tractor on the track some how (cut side alleys for passing) so you are loading into a clean area, no mud splatters etc. (baler on the front? of the crane tractor)

botex light roof crane
Botex 580 Forester Roof Mounted Loader - YouTube

We don't get those in the states, most of the tree rows are 5.5' centers when planted so most tractors are even too wide, you need a specialized narrow tractor guarded up to get through the rows to even mow.

This is one of our old stand up balers for the skid steer for doing the smaller trees.

caveman · July 21, 2019, 08:33:15 AM

Did y'all ever wonder where those trees y'all were wrapping ended up? I remember some sore mornings after unloading, reloading on smaller trailers and delivering those big noble firs and the killer dougs (18'-22'). Two of us would be on the semi trailers dragging them to the back and then the ones on the ground would try to find the balance point of the tree and carry it on the shoulder to its next spot or bin. One season I recall unloading 54 semi trailers. A trailer may hold small 500 Fraser Firs but only 30 of those big Dougs. My knees would wobble when I had a 20 footer on my shoulder.

One night I got back to the central lot around 10 p.m. and anticipated going home early, get six hours of sleep before driving 45 minutes to the day job trying to teach juvenile felons science. Upon arrival, the boss said, "Kyle, I have one more run for you, the truck is already loaded. Haul this load of trees to Jacksonville, unload them, and give my partner this brown paper bag". Jacksonville is at least three hours from Lakeland. No sleep that night, just a quick bath in GoJo and back to the juvenile detention center. The brown paper bag contained roughly $10,000 cash (real money in 1991). I learned a valuable lesson that year - I was told they would take care of me at the end of the season and pay me well. I got paid $500 and worked 44 days straight from an average of 3 p.m. to midnight.

Sorry, I have nothing to offer on a proper grapple for picking up Christmas trees. If you can con some young folks into working for the pay that we did, you may be better off hiring some young folks with strong backs and weak minds (my back is not so strong anymore so I'm out - my mind is still a weakling).

mike_belben · July 21, 2019, 10:53:55 AM

Could a deadheader and atv winch do the job? Or a septic tank/coffin trolley over the wagon?

redneck · July 21, 2019, 01:18:54 PM

Yes a log loader will work. My grandfather hired a local logger to load his trees on a semi trailer every fall. We first bailed trees in the woods then hauled them to a central spot using smaller trailers. Then once everything was bailed and ready to ship we had a log truck come in and help load trees. we would first pile trees in stacks of three and the graple would grab them and load onto a stake body trailer. there was two men on top of trailer for final nesting of trees. the grapple on the log truck was a pulp grapple and we did 750 trees or one tractor trailer loader each year for 20 years shipped to Boston

CHill8903 · July 21, 2019, 06:30:50 PM

Thanks for all the suggestions and especially thanks to Skeans for reaching out to me and offering his experience, he's done what we're looking to do and makes me think it'll work. Unfortunately labor is our biggest challenge. It's a tough job and keeping a crew of seasonal workers is easier said than done. It seems anyone that is worth employing is employed. So anything we can do to reduce the workload is what we're looking at.