language barriers

Den Socling · January 30, 2006, 11:18:56 AM

We 'English' speaking forum members often write things that are interpreted incorrectly by others. Now, we have grown to include non-English speaking members. I hope we can achieve the goal of knocking down political boundaries, making new friends and sharing information.

I'm really busy this week and then I'm heading overseas for nearly a month on Thursday. I don't know how much time Al has to look in and I would appreciate all efforts to keep a good exchange and avoid misunderstandings.

Tom,
You are a super ambassador. 8) I hope you aren't going to be too busy ~~feeding~~ visiting with the boss.
Den

crtreedude · January 30, 2006, 12:25:58 PM

Well, I live the issue - since I am the person without native language skills normally. The only way to survive is to assume that you misunderstood someone. For that reason, if you want to insult me - don't be subtle about it... :

It is hard enough to understand each other when we in theory speak the same language. Crossing language and cultural barriers requires tolerance on both sides.

The stories I could tell... :D

Brad_S. · January 30, 2006, 08:59:54 PM

Crtreedude,
You would appreciate my faux pa. One of the neighbors near my shop is an 85 year old woman from Peru who used to work at the old mink farm I now own. Her 67 year old son comes from Peru for several months of the year to watch 'mama'. I speak no Spanish, he speaks no English, but we get by and he helps out with odd jobs around the property. He asked a question which I managed to understand and gave him the symbol for OK with the thumb and forefinger connected in an "O" and the other three fingers pointed up. He looked at me with the unmistakable look of shock for a second or two before he started laughing. Apparently I had just called him a name that would get me hurt in Peru! (think sphincter). OK is now expressed as

Den Socling · January 30, 2006, 09:08:53 PM

That's just what I mean. :D

crtreedude · January 31, 2006, 05:41:55 AM

Yeah Brad, that is a no-no!

Another one is to throw things - honest. Of course, we from the USA all think we are pro-basketball players and want to hookshot trash into the trash can. Another no - no.

My solution is to bring this up and talk about it. After all, a lifetime of habits, that weren't bad, isn't going to change overnight. You just have to explain that things are different.

Just like for Latino men, comments about pretty ladies as they walk by is considered only showing appreciation. I suggested it isn't too smart when the lady in question has a husband who resembles Lurch from the Adams family... They got the point and I haven't pounded anyone who doesn't know better - yet...

ronwood · January 31, 2006, 09:24:44 AM

Den,

I will do my best to make him welcome. Its nice to hear from folks like Al fromanother country that I don't have a good understanding of. We all can learn from him as well as he learning from us.

Ron

JimBuis · January 31, 2006, 09:41:05 AM

I never thought I'd see anything being discussed in Drying and Processing that I'd know enough about to even comment on. However, today is the day.

You see....I live in Tokyo, Japan most of the year. I am an American born and raised. Unfortunately, I am one of those "singlelingual" Americans, read NOT bilingual. I have studied Japanese, but found that I am so dangerous as for it to be in everyone's best interest for me to only speak English.

This results in my having great empathy for those who are "illiterate, deaf, and dumb". I cannot speak Japanese, cannot understand it even if I could speak it, cannot read it, and certainly cannot write it. This has served to keep me VERY humble.

In Japan, English is in use everywhere, on signs, in the news media, in music, even in conversation among the Japanese. There is one huge problem though. Many English words do not have the same meaning here as they do in English speaking countries. For example, many people here will say that they live in a "mansion". This should not be understood to mean "mansion" as in a very large house with servants who take care of your every whim. Rather it means they live in a small apartment. The word is used here by the real estate folks to try to make a one room apartment sound like it is something a bit fancier than it really is.

Jim

DanG · January 31, 2006, 10:49:35 AM

I think the most important thing in communicating where there is a language barrier is to keep it simple. Keep in mind that some of these folks are using computer based translators to tell what we are saying, so we need to stay away from slang, colloquialisms, "cute" expressions, and contractions as much as possible when talking with them. Phrases with multiple meanings can really throw things off track, too.

JimBuis · January 31, 2006, 04:49:09 PM

DanG, you are exactly right. Add to your list idioms. After many years communicating with the Japanese and teaching many of them English, it is astonishing to realize just how much of our conversational American English is made up of idioms.

Dictionaries are a problem. There are some translations that are VERY poor. For example, Nihongo (the Japanese word for their language) has a word that they use to describe a person who is very, very strict in dealing with someone. Although the concept behind the word is one of a person being a strict disciplinarian, this Nihongo word is often translated into English as "scary". I have even heard some say in English, "He scares me", when the intended meaning is that "He is strict with me."

There are also many misunderstandings due to poor knowledge of English grammar and useage. The Japanese have many problems understanding the use of the verb "to be". I gave one of my students an example sentence. "I am not like my brother." This was misunderstood to mean "I DO NOT like my brother."

I could go on and on, but I won't. 8) 8)

isassi · January 31, 2006, 04:54:47 PM

Shoot guys, I live with that here without leaving the US. My wife is Navajo, and when we are visiting in Arizona, they speak Navajo which excludes me completely. And of course, being traditional, I have to watch my actions and speach so it doesn't insult them...like walking on eggs and thinking before I speak...which would help in everyday life also.

crtreedude · January 31, 2006, 05:00:52 PM

Well, it gets pretty funny here - thankfully the Ticos have a great sense of humor... For example:

A man was trying to learn Spanish, so went in to a small restaurant at lunch and bravely marched up to the counter and said:

Quiero casado a usted

You see - casada is the name for a dish - the normal, everyday lunch, but casado is "marry"

The women kept saying

No señior, ya casado!

No sir, I am already married!

This went back and forth for a while until he decided to order something else.... :D

I suspect if Harold isn´t careful, he could end up married pretty quick down here!

Den Socling · January 31, 2006, 05:05:40 PM

I got email from Sergey today. He said that he has learned only three words in English - "I love you". Everything else goes through the computer translator.

He also sent a nice picture of himself with his lovely wife. I will post it if he permits.

ellmoe · January 31, 2006, 08:24:03 PM

Den,
My wife is Russian. If you need something translated she might be able to help.
Mark

Max sawdust · January 31, 2006, 10:40:43 PM

Serg,
Zdravstvuite
I am very interested in your work, you are a very intelligent individual. I have many Finnish friends, that are quadlingual, (Finnish Swedish, Russian, German and English) I wished us Americans spoke more language.
Did you see the offer to translate from Murf in Canada also, what you have to say is very important,
Max