Winch issues

wbrent · December 08, 2018, 04:34:49 PM

So I'm new to this for the most part. Recently bought a sawmill. Then an old tractor. Inherited a very old tractor winch. Been sitting for close to 10 years. As far as I know it worked fine when it was last used. And I have memories of using it with my father years ago. I think it's a Farmi but not positive. It's orange anyway. A rope is supposed to engage the cable and pull the log.theres another short rope that looks like it locks the winch. Here's my issue. When I connect the pto I can not pull the cable out. Seems the clutch is stuck in. (Is there a clutch?) As an experiment I unhooked the pto, and then was able to pull the cable out. I then hooked the pto back up. As soon as I engaged the pto the winch starting winding up. So what's stuck? Any easy way to get it unstuck. I thought I'd spray pb blaster everywhere for a few days before entertaining taking things apart. Looks like most of the bolts are not going to come easy. Heat will probably be needed. Any thought. Be gentle. Remember I'm new. And only moderately mechanical. Don't even know how a clutch works. Thanks.

47sawdust · December 08, 2018, 05:00:53 PM

I would try to identify the winch's mfg.,then see if a parts/service manual is available.If you post a picture of your winch we might be able to help identify the winch.If it has been sitting for 10 years rust has come to visit.
You might try going through the free spool/pull cycle a number of times to see if it helps.Be careful spraying the components as you don't want to compromise the the winch's braking mechanism.
Where are you located?

wbrent · December 08, 2018, 05:25:19 PM

I'm in New Brunswick Canada. My young son says the unit is a farmi JL 400. Can't find anything about it online.

wbrent · December 08, 2018, 05:26:40 PM

Oops. Sticker says Normet. Model JL400

Puffergas · December 08, 2018, 07:17:04 PM

If I recall correctly my Farmi was always in neutral until you pull the rope. If it is like that I would make sure the latch brake is not engaged and maybe connect the cable to a tree and try gently going forward with the tractor. But that might be a bad idea ! ! !

47sawdust · December 08, 2018, 07:37:22 PM

https://www.northeastimplement.com/

You might try a Farmi dealer for more info.Here in the U.S. Northeast Implement is a major distributor.They are very friendly and accessible,give them a call,I bet they can fix you up.
Normet was an older version of Farmi.

thecfarm · December 08, 2018, 09:33:48 PM

Maybe the one that engaged the winch is stuck on?

mjeselskis · December 09, 2018, 01:24:45 AM

I had a JL400 as my first winch. The mechanism is the same as the newer farmi winches. There should my two ropes. One pulls a lever up into the external teeth on the winch drum to lock the drum, and the other rope engages the clutch to pull in the cable. When I got mine, it was stuck just like you described. The clutch plate had stuck to the drum due to years of sitting outside. I simply hooked the cable to the winch frame and put the PTO in gear (slowly letting out the tractor clutch). This broke the clutch plate free so I could free spool the cable, but also revealed that the bearings were toast. I ended up rebuilding the winch with new bearings, and it was pretty simple to get apart and back together.

maple flats · December 09, 2018, 01:10:33 PM

Different brand, but I used to be a dealer for Fransgard winches. Occassionally we would get a call from owners about the same issue. The problem always turned out to be a clutch plate frozen to the clutch face. To fix it we always had the owner hook up to a heavy log with the winch PTO hooked up and pull on the log but be ready to push in the clutch if necessary. Usually 1 or 2 attempts would free them. It works best if you pull plenty of cable out to start with.
The issue only seemed to happen after long storage out in the weather.

wbrent · December 09, 2018, 06:01:14 PM

Ok. That's more or less what I've done and it's working. Clutch still seems to be slightly engaged when no weight on the cable but a little tug will free it up now.
But I'm thrilled that today I was able to pull out my first log from the woods. Don't need to tell you all this , but these things are awesome. Cut a tree 20" at the butt and cut it off at the 20' mark and this thing pulled it like it wasn't even trying.
I made up a choker with a shortish piece of chain. But one question. When finally dragging out of the woods do I Hook the log to the winch with the choker and then lift. Or can you just lift using the winch cable. Thanks again folks.

mjeselskis · December 12, 2018, 08:42:07 PM

I believe the recommended process is to hook the choker to the winch when hauling them out, but I leave them on the cable since it saves time. Then again, I've heard of people ripping off the top pulley doing that. Mine also has a bent spot on the frame from leaving them hanging on the cable, so it definitely increases the strain on the winch.

thecfarm · December 13, 2018, 05:51:46 AM

I have always left the logs on the cable. At one time we had some logs that was an easy 3 feet across. Had to leave them on the cable to keep the front of the log off the ground. I have no idea what other brands recommend.

curved-wood · December 13, 2018, 07:30:35 AM

As much as possible I hook the log to the slotted bar instead of travelling with the log lock on the cable. I've got to say that I have to travel at least 1/2 mile so I try to have a full load when coming back. A full load is a lot for the locking system. I already have bent the locking system but I didn't have to change it... yet. I pull with the cable when I still have some uphill slope so that I could release my load, drive with the tractor only and pull the load again. For large diameter log I made a slot higher on the winch ; that help for lifting the end of the log and diminishing the drag on the ground. But the problem with having too much load on the higher part of the winch is that it create a leverage and the front of the tractor might lift from the ground specially on a up going hill. So I have to control the direction with the brakes. The message is that it is the limit of my outfit. If I had a heavier tractor that might not be an issu.

curved-wood · December 14, 2018, 03:10:06 PM

Here you could see the log completely lifted from the ground when it is tied high and tight. If it is too loose it is just dragging in the soil so that is equivalent to hook your log to the lower bar which is better. Same situation could happen when the front end of the tractor dip in a whole . If it was a 30'' diam and 16' length , you could imagine the leverage and the force that will be ask at the locking system if it was hook at the top pulley. The front of the tractor is suddenly very light. So I prefer hook my log at the low bar

mike_belben · December 14, 2018, 08:25:15 PM

I think thats the first time ive seen ring chains on an ag tractor. How do you like them when it isnt frozen? Think they help or hurt in the mud?

curved-wood · December 15, 2018, 08:26:25 AM

Mike : ring chains are not the best for my uses but it is what I had. In the mud they are mad-dogs, way better than bare tires, but they tear apart the soil if it is not frozen. A friend calls them ''shovel chain'' so they shovel some soil at each time you pass. Even on hard frozen road they tend to float because my tractor is not heavy enough to dig in the ice. Real ice chains are probably better for my uses. On snow that is dam hard they are the best and I could pull a lot. The chains dig in and my load is floating. I have plans to weld more 1/2'' studs on the rings. Anyway it is still better than bare tires since I work most of the time in winter and a little in summer when it is very dry.

sidehill6 · December 15, 2018, 11:35:47 AM

those fenders look a lot like fordson major diesel fenders, if so how does that handle a good sized hitch?

mike_belben · December 15, 2018, 12:02:12 PM

Thanks for the confirmation CW, i made a set for a garden tractor and had similar results.

curved-wood · December 17, 2018, 08:11:20 AM

>

Here you could see the bottom bar which is fairly thick, got bent at the slot. So you could imagine the forces involved. Probably bended when the log got stuck on a frozen rock or a stump. Lucky that the log was not hook at the top pulley.

I did try to make a slot half way between the bottom bar and the top pulley ( and the end of the white arrow ) So that I will have more height on large diameter logs.. That also bent. so I reinforce it with an angle iron but it bent also ! By design the top of the winch lean toward the front so the top pulley is more in front than the bottom bar; as opposite to skidder where the top pulley is way back. Also the bottom bar is connected to the hydraulic bars which are lower than the rear axle. The top pulley is connected to the 3 points which is higher than the rear axle. Good thing to remember that in difficult conditions.
Other useful tricks with a winch :
-Dont pull trees at more than 45 degrees : hard on the top pulley and could flip the tractor (even 45 is high side ) . You could see on the bottom photo that I had to repair the top pulley.
- Dont let the skidder chains hang out too long at the back. There might be problem when you back up and the chains gets under the tractor wheel. Avoid making loops that float on the ground with the chain: it could get hook on a stump, rock or whatever. If you want a sharp stop that's the way to go ! So I wrap the chains snug around the post of the winch.
Tractor winch is a great tool
Have fun and be safe