Getting Started

[jueston]

we had a big old cotton wood tree in our backyard growing up, it was the biggest tree around and you could see it for miles because our house was also at the top of a hill, but eventually my parents took it down, they said the roots weren't strong enough and they were worried it would fall over in a big storm. it was a large undertaking since there were houses all the way around but I remember just being a little kid and being amazed and how accurately they could drop a branch into the spot they wanted it.

[brianbrooke]

I have to ammend my heighth on the tree.... I can't seem to count right!  !...  It's about 100 feet... and most grow from 70-100....

[S.Hyland]

Hmmm. Sip basement? Do they use a steel sip of some sort or perhaps MGO? My uninformed reaction is skepticism ???

[Carpenter]

Cedar works quite well for siding and trim. It is not often used structurally.

The choice of wood is sometimes dictated by the frame design, and sometimes the frame design is influenced by the choice of wood.  You can mix and match different species of wood as well. All of the species that you've mentioned will work if they are sized according to the frame.   

As far as the best wood?  I would probably say old growth doug fir.  Unfortunately there's not a lot left. Southern yellow pine has similar strength characteristics to douglas fir.  I've never worked any that I know of but, that may be a good choice.  Personally of course I would go with the local ponderosa pine and size the frame according to that.  But, you're the one in charge of the budget, so I'm sure that you'll make the best desicision that you can based on the information that you have available.  Best of luck on you're project.  Come talk with at Expo if you get the chance.

Jeff Carpenter

[Jay C. White Cloud]

So which would be better..... oak, the shortleaf pine, or  would cedar/lodgepole be even a remote possibility? 

Hello Brainbrooke, 

Well again, I would have to say it depends on the design of your timber frame.  Junipers and Cypress species, what we often call Red Cedars, are not used commonly here but very commonly used for framing in place like Japan, and in the Pacific Northwest.  Your Red Cedar, (Juniperus virginianain in this case-we don't have true cedars in North America) is a strong aromatic that must be considered with caution for construction as some folks are sensitive to it in a day to day living environment.  Red Juniper is rather knotty but with the correct design and log choices could be very effective particularly for the foundation element, but more so for the roof, and/or attic space.  It's aromatic character is of value there.

Again, it is going to be difficult to make a good decision about species till you have chosen a design format.  Some will require really clean straight trees, while others can accommodate very bent and crooked species.  What you have presented are more than adequate for the right design. 

Good Luck,

jay

[beenthere]

Jay
Note that the name is Brianbrooke, not Brainbrooke. ;)

[Jim_Rogers]

I think they signed up together, that's Brian the husband and Brooke the wife.....

[Jay C. White Cloud]

Thanks Beenthere ...dyslexia can be a challenge sometimes. :D :D :D

My apologies for the misspelling...  :embarassed:

[brianbrooke]

 :D

...  I see a lot of people misspell Brian as brain... I tend to pay no attention to that, we get mail that way a lot :laugh:.....    Basically, I think we are going to go with a square 40x40 house, to maximize floor space ratio to the surface area for our budget.  I have to get Brian a new laptop so maybe he'll finish designing it  : He doesn't seem to like pushing me off the desktop...  basically we are looking at a  40x40, 2.5 stories, bottom level will be a basement with about 4 feet out of the ground, and 20x20 great room in the middle back....facing out to pasture.  Figuring out a floorplan seems to be harder that creating post, beams and joints in Sketchup. 
Here is a shot of the concept... no wood yet...



 

[Piston]

I can just picture a huge stone fireplace in the middle of that 40x40 space, with a nice large soapstone woodstove for heat in the winter  ;D

This sounds like a really nice project!  That's quite impressive that you have 400 acres to set it on! 

[Brian_Weekley]

...  I see a lot of people misspell Brian as brain...

Being a Brian too, my nickname was "Brain" for that very reason...   :D  :D  :D

[Jay C. White Cloud]

If the neurons synapses fits, where it...

[Brian_Weekley]

If the neurons synapses fits, "wear" it...

Jay,

That's more funny than you know.  When I was in college, I worked part time in a photo lab.  For one job, we were printing actual photos of a human brain for NIH.  My coworkers printed some extras and made a "brain hat" for me that I use to wear around the lab!   ;D

Brain

[brianbrooke]

If the neurons synapses fits, "wear" it...

Jay,

That's more funny than you know.  When I was in college, I worked part time in a photo lab.  For one job, we were printing actual photos of a human brain for NIH.  My coworkers printed some extras and made a "brain hat" for me that I use to wear around the lab!   ;D

Brain

:D :D :D

I need to get one of those for my Brain Brian :D

I have been thinking of a masonry heater.... my husband thought of an outdoor wood stove that is piped in.    Most people in our area of the country use propane, as we do now, or a wood stove.    I guess budget and forethought will play into it the most....  trying to figure out how the masonry heater would get the basement level heated well as we were thinking of tossing the kids down there... ???  but I hope to have some of this stuff figured out by the end of summer and get moving...

[S.Hyland]

A masonry stove would be awesome. Those Russians do know the right way to heat with wood! Good luck with the project. It looks like fun

[Carpenter]

Hi, Brian and Brooke                   

It was great getting to meet you again at Expo.  I think you did stop by my booth a couple of years ago.  I see so many people at those things it's really hard to keep track of everybody.

You've got quite a challenge to freespan 40'.  That's why most ranch style houses are 28-32' wide with a supporting wall in the middle.  But, as with any challenge it can be overcome.  Continuous tie beams with a king post or a queen post truss are of course one way.  Like I said I have found local ponderosa that will make an 8x8 32' long with very little wane.  I'm not sure about 40' though and you would really need 42' to trim the ends and allow for joinery.  Also, an 8x8 is really pushing any limits for a tie beam or a cord in any type of a truss that spans that far.  My dream shop that I designed in sketchup and ran Don P's calcs on it (it has not been approved by an engineer) is a king post design and free spans 28' and I needed 8x14s to span that safely with the local ponderosa pine.  I'm sure that it's over built, but I like things that are over built.  I think that an 8x14 42' long is probably out of the question here.  They are probably out there, I just don't know where and to come up with the five or six that you would need would be very difficult.  Also, spanning 40' with ponderosa pine you may need something bigger, or you would need to add more struts, and possibly have more members in tension.
     You did mention a hammer beam design.  Hammer beams were originally used in Europe because long wood was scares at the time.  So, a hammer beam could very well be a viable option.  Also, of course importing wood that is a little stronger is an option.  Also, just to throw this idea out there you could consider using a few additional posts to carry the load down to the foundation.  Because, posts in the middle of a timberframed room still leave a lot of open space not like a supporting wall. 
      Just a few thoughts.

[Jay C. White Cloud]

Hey Folks,

I have tried to stay on top of your thread and just read todays entry.  40' is a challenge, as you are hearing.  Hammer beam is one option but very complicated for that width and will probably have to have some iron to get by most PE.  If you go with king post truss assembly, you do not have to span 40' feet, only 20 as the spanning cord can be broken.  All these designs are beyond the scope of your average timber wright, and I know I won't tackle them without a PE being part of the team, unless it was for self consumption job.  Keep researching and asking your questions.

Regards,

jay

[Piston]

Regarding the "brian" vs. "brain" issue.......


I raed semowehre taht the huamn biran can raed wrods taht are all mipslled with the lettres jubmeld aorund as lnog as the frist and lsat lettrs of the wrod are in the coerrct lcoatoins. 

[WmFritz]

That's funny... it also seems correct. :D

[thecfarm]

Piston,I like that. Just about the way I write-post too. There is also a color test.
blue
yellow
Or something like that. The color test can be a hard one,if done fast.

[Piston]

Thats similar to asking "What do cows eat?"




Okay sorry if I derailed your thread a bit.  ;D

[brianbrooke]

 :D :D :D  Hi carpenter, It was nice meeting you ... even with the embarassing exploding soda ;D  I think what we are planning is a 20' great room in the center of the 40 and then two bays on either side to make up the 40'.   

Hi Piston.... I believe you are right about the human brain filling the gaps per se....  I'm glad of that considering how many typos I seem to throw into the virtual world.  :laugh:


I'm hoping we can get more done on our plan, although I have a church directory to shoot... my first really large one, so we'll be behind on designing for a few weeks because I pull poor Brian along.....

As far as cows... we let's see ... ours eats... alfalfa, grass, thistle  ;) ;)

[Thehardway]

Brianbrooke,

Oak will make the best posts.  White oak is the strongest but tends to check more and deeper.  Red Oaks are nice to work with and checks less but they have little rot resistance and are not quite as strong.  They make beautiful struts and kneebraces and good posts. Sills and plates are better left to white oaks due to better rot resistance.

Lodgepole and Shortleaf SYP will make good horizontal members and also good T&G.  I would use the lodgepole for T&G to do your roof.

SYP has an incredible Strength to weight ratio and you can easily find trees that are 30' tall, straight and free of branches.  These can make for some pretty good tie beams if you have the ability to transport and handle them but it certainly increases the difficulty of the build and raising.  As mentioned, limiting spans is a much easier path. 

SYP can and will twist as it drys with incredible power if not carefully selected.  Make sure your sawyer is selective and doesn't give you SYP that is spiral grain or has a lot of tension.  You can see this in the bark of the tree when standing but tough to see after milled until it starts to twist.  At that point it is too late.

Eastern Red Cedar (ERC) is great for paneling closets, wainscoting, siding, fascia boards and shingles if you have really large trees and can limit sapwood.


Welcome to the journey.