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Cost to clear 10 acres

Started by Leigh Family Farm, December 12, 2013, 12:01:33 PM

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Leigh Family Farm

I'm in the process of finding a homestead and I came across a few options. Some are fully wooded and I would need the land cleared for my house and pastures. What would the cost be for clearing 10 acres of trees? Would a logger pay for the trees (if valuable) or would I have to pay the logger?

The trees appear to be mostly hardwoods and there is alread a driveway cut into the trees from an older home on the property. My goal would be to get a logger willing purchase the trees so I can use that towards a down payment (already spoke to a bank about doing this and they were okay with it). Thoughts and ideas are appreciated. I don't know anything about the logging/land clearing industry. Thanks!
There are no problems; only solutions we haven't found yet.

beenthere

Likely (highly likely !! ) that the value of the trees as wood is less than the cost of clearing the land.

A forester could be hired to cruise the timber for a board foot estimate and then get estimates of timber value.

Then get estimates from land clearing contractors for removal of everything where they may recover some of their expenses by cutting out and selling some of the logs.
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Autocar

Iam totaly against clearing forest land hold out and buy pasture/farm ground. We are losing to much forest to developers in this country already.
Bill

woodmills1

really???? :P


can't wait to see respons
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snowstorm

Quote from: Autocar on December 12, 2013, 04:35:42 PM
Iam totaly against clearing forest land hold out and buy pasture/farm ground. We are losing to much forest to developers in this country already.
i agree with bill. it will cost a lot to stump 10ac and get rid of them

ET

I just paid $9000. To clear 3 ac of woodland and leveled it with a buldozer. They used a trachoe D6 dozer and a skidsteer for 7 days and i kept all the logs. New site for my new barn. 60x104
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OH Boy

As someone who has a homesteading bone also, I'd ask what you mean by homesteading? if your mean clear it for a Kentucky style horse farm pasture, it could be very expensive. I deal with some right of way crews and clearing and stump grinding a ROW can run up to 15 K / acre ( extrapolated out as these are linear) or more if very large trees. Thats paying crews by the hour though.

My question would be as a homesteader who looks to use the land, get the natural items from it that you can, and keep it somewhat forested and natural, is why would  it all  need to be cleared completely? we have a bit of woods and it would be unthinkable to me to clearcut it, but thats me. Does pasture really have to be clearcut to the sky? I've seen lots of cow pasture with woods/large trees, especially in the east center/ midwest where you are(and I am)

could you look at having the understory cleared with brushogging, remove non-logging trees for firewood, and selectively cut for harvest. Can still pasture some cows, goats are great for keeping the brush down and no"homestead is complete without some, clear for your house and buildings, ect.

every situation is different and everybody's idea of homesteading is different, but I also read a few homestead forums, back to earth/wise use type of sites, and there could be a lot of uses for those trees and woodlot besides timber. most of the homesteaders ( in that definition) are looking to use everything possible to it's best use. are there walnut trees ( sell the walnuts) a lot of Maple ( make syrup), anywhere is good goat pasture except maybe a swamp, but some breeds probably like that too. Chickens love to scratch around a woodlot. Firewood is premium prices if you buy it, but the tops from your harvest heat a lot. Our place was logged just before we got it, but I have more tops to cut than I can do before it will rot, and I use it to heat my house and boil sap. Lots can be done without an expensive clear cut and monoculture grass planting. If you're doing crops thats different, and probably a lot cheaper to buy cleared land.

Honestly not trying to pick at the OP and probably didn't answer his question, but as a wannabe homesteader I always look at the most use for what is there, and being a cheapskate always looking for the wisest cost. I like the thoughts in his post signature

OneWithWood

Autocar has a very good point.  Fragmentation is destroying wooded habitat and decreasing the ability of woodlots to be sustainable.  I would suggest you buy a played out farm, restore the pasture and plant the rest to trees.
One With Wood
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Southside

Well, opinions are like you know what and since you asked here is mine.  First, if you intend to have pasture that can be productive and profitable, then do not grub out your stumps with an excavator or dozer, you will lose the soil organic matter content, which is off the charts in hardwoods like you describe and the #1 factor for live healthy soil, secondly you will destroy the soil profile in that the top soils will become mixed in with deeper soils and the microbes, earth worms, carbon, etc will all suffer as a result, not to mention the soil compaction which will happen resulting in reduced water and O2 permeation.  Completely open pastures are also not the best answer, the soil is exposed to extremes of heat, wind, etc, animals prefer shade when its hot, rainy, windy, etc, so trees do have a very important place in a grazing set up.  What I have done in the past, and still do on our own land, is find a balance between wooded and open and mimic the Savannah we had when I was out west, today its called Siva-pasture by all the fancy types, but basically we grazed our cattle and horses in the woods.  The key is to get the canopy open enough so that grass will grow to its maximum potential, and the trees will remain healthy.  Somewhere in the 20% - 40% canopy enclosure works well, depending on tree species, size and soil type you are talking about 20' - 60' spacing between trees.  This allows the sun to cast a shadow across parts of the soil during the day, and the same areas to get full sun for part of the day.  A variety of grass selection (both cool season and warm season) along with legumes (clover, alfalfa, etc - going to need nitrogen to feed the microbes to break down the extra organic matter) will be critical to establishing your pasture, don't try to create a mono culture or just use what ever the local feed store says to use, do some research - please run if somebody tells you to plant Ketucky 31 fescue.  You will also need to budget in some lime, that will open a whole nother can of worms, but around 500 lbs per acre / year for 4 years will create amazing results, that level is not an attempt to change the ph of the soil based on a soil test result - you will need a second mortgage if you try to do that, rather you are just trying to create an environment where the soil microbes can flourish and help your plants to do the same.  Lastly as far as removing the stumps - hire out a forestry mulcher, you can find dedicated machines, 3 pt hitch models, and excavator attached versions.  It is hard to say the cost per acre because that will depend on the number of stumps you have and how big they are, species, but if you do a selective approach like this I would think $2000 per acre would be a safe planning number.  The mulcher will leave all the mulch scattered across the soil surface - that is a good thing as this is more organic matter which will decompose into the soil.  One other thing to consider in all of this is just how much rock do you have in your soil?  I have seen parts of PA that don't know what a stone is and others that literally plant corn in gravel.  Good luck, include photos if you move ahead with it. 
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David-L

I am with Southside logger, that sounds like good implementation. Landclearing can be very expensive.

                                                     David l
In two days from now, tomorrow will be yesterday.

Dave Shepard

If it's forest now, what is the soil like? As mentioned, it might be clean ground, or it could be a distant cousin of the thecfarm's land and all rock. :D I haven't kept up on land clearing around here, but cleared and stumped is a lot of money. Better to look for open ground is my thinking.
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thecfarm

I sure hope it's not related.  :o  I have rocks sticking up out of the ground,but I start digging around here..... ::)  Dig out one stump,and I have 2-3 good size rocks and ALOT of smaller rocks to get rid of. And I might find a bigger one that I can't even move just a few inches below the ground.That is why I don't dig my stumps out.
Model 6020-20hp Manual Thomas bandsaw,TC40A 4wd 40 hp New Holland tractor, 450 Norse Winch, Heatmor 400 OWB,YCC 1978-79

thenorthman

history books and stuff...

Way I've seen it done on the cheap is log a little, clear a little, repeat until done.

While I'm generally against developing... its your land.

Any way, the primary method of clearing land before dozers and tnt was to leave the stumps and just work around them until you could find time to dig it out manually or let it rot.  These days however a guy could pick up an inexpensive dozer for around 5-10k while its not a huge beasty it will eventually pluck the stumps out, especially coupled with a stump breaker, a large steel wedge thing hanging off the rear of the dozer... 

So you could log it and leave the stumps, if they are anything like around here most of them will be gone or mostly gone within 5-10 years.  If your dead set on having flat ground to turn the plow or whatever on, log it buy a little dozer and have some fun.  Diesel in the grand scheme of things is pretty cheap, and dozers are always fun.

If your set on planting something and going full tilt homesteader, the pioneers would plant corn and beans in between the stumps, and rake whatever hay they could where they could, (although green corn stalks make a Hel of a silage for feeding critters with).  When they had time and money they would work in whatever stumps that where in the way or convenient, eventually they cleared a whole bunch of land out this way.
well that didn't work

woodenboater

I've got 11 acres in near north Ont and I'd guess about 3 acres or so is cleared. The entire lot was harvested previously but the forest has come back pretty well. Mostly softwood with a scattering of maples (some sugar I plant to tap). Will be thinning it out over time but am also setting it up to eventually have a large garden as it has good southern exposure. Almost all the rocks have been removed and left behind the shed thankfully ;)

Long story short, I agree with the others not to go apocalyptic and clear all 10 acres. Best to keep a woodlot going for heating and general bonfire time. Makes for a nicer property imo.

SwampDonkey

Far cheaper to get ahold of an old hobby farm than it is the start over. But land clearing often involves selling the wood for revenue for clearing. But you'd get maybe a quarter of the cost of clearing if your lucky. Around here we don't dump wood in dumps to burn, it's most all salable to mills as pulp if nothing else. Much of our wood is not high value.

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thecfarm

You are right there swampdonkey. We are lucky to have ways of getting rid of wood,even if it's not the best wood. Any land clearing done around here the wood is not just pushed into a burn pile.
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chain

If you are a true homesteader, allow Mother Nature to work for you! I've watched our own timber land change, oak trees dying, standing a few years and topple over, stump and all. The Native Americans, early pioneers, girdled the trees, speeding up the process, then,  clearing and burning  their plots for camps and cabins, pastures, farms.

But if you do have a timber sale, you know you've got some tough stumps to deal with. Have the cutters cut the stumps as low as possible, try to keep that big heavy equipment only for pushing out a pond, or build a dam for a lake.

RayMO

I can not imagine paying good money for timbered land with the intention of clearing most of it off . The early homesteaders cleared large plots of land because it was free or nearly so and the clearing and farming was part of the improvements .The forested land was far greater in those days than now .

Some times even required and this was long before heavy equipment was available to do wholesale land clearing .

It is quite another thing to clean up an old "homestead" that has been let go and grown over with sprouts,weeds and other undesiable growth .
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T Welsh

Brian, I just saw the thread, the way it works best in this area is to sell the valuable timber first,take the money to the bank. What is left are the tops and less desirable tree,s. You then start having to pay to clear. That,s it in a nut shell!! In our area trucking is the killer of making money on logs because of the trip to a good paying mill is a hour or two away!Anytime you start talking clearing land you are talking money from your pocket. There are a few ways to get around this,but it evolves $. You could purchase a used machine and clear your own land at your leisure or you can cut a deal with a local and tell them all is free for the removal!This is possible,but it usually does not work! PM me and let me know what your specifics are and I would be glad to steer you in the best direction that works for you! Tim

Leigh Family Farm

Holy bahdunkadunk! Thanks for the responses everyone! I'll try to clarify some of the questions and issue brought up. First, the property in question is 331 Fairview Road, Glenmoore, PA. It is 33.5 acres of woods on a partially steep slope with very stoney loam soil. I might have cfarm's relatives down here!  ;) There is a house already on the property that I would plan to fix up. My wife is not too keen on living in complete woods but is okay with living on a homestead/farm, hence the land clearing question. My intention is to develop a polyculture farm utilizing as much of the land properly as I can manage in the most sustainable manner possible.

"Why clear the land at all then? Why not just buy farmland already cleared?", you might ask. In Chester County, farmland is very valuable and thus expensive for me to get into. As an example, 5 acres of farmland/cleared land with a house is $350,000 while 33 acres of woods with a house is $450,000. Also, farmland that is more in line with my intentions is too far away from my current job in Philadelphia, as I am required to live within 50 miles of my office. We are still looking for other good properties.

I do agree with those that want to keep the land natural and I would strive to do that in my homestead. I am still learning on all that can be raised, grown, and cultivated in open land, partially wooded, or fully wooded lands. I would not want to grow or raise monoculture (one type of crop or livestock), as I feel that is detrimental to the land and against being a good land steward. I did not think of girdling trees to help in land clearing, might be something worth looking into.

Also, I agree and understand about too much development and land clearing occurring in the country today. My intention was to remove approximately 10 acres of trees to allow for more crop growth, not necessarily all in one big section. I do like the idea of removing a few trees in one spot (60' between each tree) to allow for the sun to reach the ground. And the idea of doing a little at a time is appealing, but might not be feasible in my situation. By the way who doesn't like a good bull dozer?  ;)

As to my original posted question, I spoke with a Farm Credit rep and he had suggested getting an appraisal of the timber value from a forester and then seeing if a logging operation would be willing to bid on clearing the land. It was an idea to help with the $110,000 down payment required to acquire the land (Farm Credit requires a 75% LTV ratio on their loans).  Now that I know that it will most likely cost me money to have the land cleared, I will probably not go that route.

I really appreciate all the comments, suggestions, opinions, and feedback provided. I will try to answer any new comments and questions as best I can. Thanks!

P.S. Tim, I was writing a response when you responded. I'll PM you later with some questions. Thanks!
There are no problems; only solutions we haven't found yet.

thecfarm

As said you could cut the trees yourself and do the clearing too. On mine grown up pasture,my land clearing,there is a mixture of hard and soft wood. Nothing of any value,no size to it. I do try to leave any red aok for wild life. The maple stumps will rot in about 6-7-8 years,if I keep at the suckers that sprout out of the stumps. The white pine stumps seem not to rot,but I can dig them out very easy with the tractor in 10 years. Really all that I get is just the stump,it's not a big root ball. But if doing it this way ,you must keep at the mowing part. I have tried a bush hog,but the best thing I found is just a cheapy push lawn mower. Yes,it takes more time,but the better job I do mowing it,closer to the ground and around the stumps,the quicker the grass will come back. As soon as I open the area up the bushes just start to come in,FAST. The only chemical I do use is on the aspen. I cut a bowl in the stump and put rock salt and water in. The aspen will really send the shoots out,BAD. Clearing 10 acres is alot no matter what. I might get about a ½ acre a year. Did not do any this year. Kinda like the more I clear,the more I have to keep clear. After about 4-5 years I can let up on the mowing part. At first I need to really keep at it.
Model 6020-20hp Manual Thomas bandsaw,TC40A 4wd 40 hp New Holland tractor, 450 Norse Winch, Heatmor 400 OWB,YCC 1978-79

Stephen Alford

   Hey Kilgrosh, I have enjoyed your posts .  Is that the piece along Colts Foot Lane ?  That might be an issue.  Bet that 35/mph gets to be a pain.  I would probably have a chat with Leamy Construction  in behind you. Bet those lads would know some history on that land.  Big concern when buying land is to be sure there is nothing in ground like buried fuel tanks  etc that become yours when you buy.  Just a thought.   ;)  Looks to be high ground without to many reparian zone issues.   Pretty piece of real estate , just missing  a water view.   ;D
logon

woodenboater

ah, my bad, I thought you were buying 10 acres and wanting to clear all of it. If you have 33, then clearing 10 wouldn't bother me too much. I like the idea of clearing enough to open up the canopy for the sun to come in. Hopefully the house won't require too much work to make it your own.

Also didn't know rural property was that expensive in PA ! I thought Ontario was dear lol.

fwiw, I've been reading Storey's Basic Country Skills (ISBN: 978-1-58017-202-8) quite a bit and it's been a great resource as we decide what to do with our 11 acres. Between the organic farmer down the road and friends who've got 27 acres, we have lots of experience to tap.

Good luck with your search and I hope you find the property that speaks to you !

rubicon79

I heard horror stories of the cost to clear land when I bought mine.

I tried to find around 10 or so acres of pasture near where I live for my girlfriend to keep her horses by the house and have a little hobby farm.  The realtors all said to expect $10k an acre for cleared pasture land where I'm at.  NO THANKS! 

I bought a wooded and rocky 18 acres near my house and found an owner operator who had a D5 dozier.  He worked reasonable but it was all cash.  It took him 10 days at $600 a day to clear around 10 acres.  He left me with 11 burn piles and it was sort of smooth.  I took the biggest pine top out of one of the brush piles, hooked it behind the tractor, and drove around for what seemed like days to smooth it all out.  We sowed our own grass and burned the brush piles ourselves.  All told it cost around $15k to clear 10 acres AND fence in the entire 18 using high tensile electric wire.  I used Bermuda grass with the recommended fertilizer from a soil test.  Its been about a year and a half and I still have 3 large burn piles left.  They are too large to work with my tractor so I hope this winter to have somebody come help with them and I'm done. 

Find an honest owner operator with a dozier and pay by the hour.  Every cost estimate I got by the job was way higher.

Al_Smith

I'm kind of with A-car on this one .

During the late 70s to mid 80's thousands of 10-15 acre tracts of hardwood fell to the mighty D8 Caterpillars ,turned into farm land that really didn't need to be .A D-5 wouldn't have stood a chance on those oaks .

The taxes on farm land is only about 7 bucks an acre so why they felt it neccessary to doze down what took several life times to grow I'll never know but they did .

The only real "logging " I ever did was on a 5 acre plot of the nicest shag bark hickory I've ever seen .Nice 80 footers ,straight as a die and 35 feet to the first limb .We cut enough to supply half the country with axe handles and never did get it all cut before the big crawlers attacked it .

It was a shame but if we didn't get it it would go up in flames .

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