Blade "diving" into the log

[Gary Davis]

if the new blade cuts good and the resharpened  doesn't  then something is wrong with the way it was sharpened and or the set in the teath

[50 Acre Jim]

Well, the bad news (for me) is I just can't get rid of the wavy cuts.  The bed is dead level.  I have removed the rails (that the head rolls on) and reinstalled them, several times.   The blade is level to the bunks.  I've changed from the ceramic guides to the roller guides, and it's gone from bad to worse. 

A brand new blade will produce almost acceptable results but within 10 minutes; it's producing wavy cuts again.  Doesn't matter what species of wood I'm cutting.  Hard, soft, it's all the same. 

I've spent so much time on this problem that my frustration level is maxed out.  I'm not having fun with this saw any longer.  I know it can cut straight, I've seen it before, but it's been awhile. 

About a month ago I was searching for better roller guides, and I found a sandwich type of guide.  It had rollers on all three sides.  Top, bottom, and back.  Was pricy as all get out and I passed on it to buy Norwood's roller guides. 

Now I'm looking for it again, and I can't find it anywhere.  Anyone heard of these guides before?  As I recall they were several hundred dollars but I've got to find a solution or this saw and I will have to part.   I've got a bunch invested but not being able to cut anything reliably is unacceptable.

Thanks in advance,

Jim

[ladylake]

 Do you have the roller guides pushing the blade down 1/4".   Steve

[Ga Mtn Man]

Jim, I believe the guides you're talking about are the Suffolk Machinery guides but I don't think they are the solution to your problem.  Do you have a pic of the Norwood roller guides?  I can't find them on their website.

Edit:  The Suffolk Machinery guides are not the ones you're looking for.

[ladylake]

 Rollers or anything under the blade is totally  unnecessary, if your running 1/4" down pressure and the blade dives its dull or something else is wrong.   Steve

[slider]

Steve is correct on this Jim . you might want to check for proper tension on your drive belt. I have had this cause the band to cause a wave. 

[50 Acre Jim]

Do you have the roller guides pushing the blade down 1/4".   Steve

The design of the ceramics allowed for adjustment but if there is a way to adjust the roller guides, I am unaware of it. I don't think they are pushing the blade down 1/4 but it does appear to be pretty tight with the blade.



 

 

Quote from Slider:  "Steve is correct on this Jim . you might want to check for proper tension on your drive belt. I have had this cause the band to cause a wave. "

Thank you Slider, I will check the tension.

[Don P]

I don't think this is the problem but it sounds like you are describing one of the larger Carter guides, Its got to be something missing in your setup;
http://www.carterproducts.com/band-saw-products/band-saw-guides

[50 Acre Jim]

Well those aren't the ones I was talking about but they're along the same lines.

Thank you Don.

[Ga Mtn Man]

Guides need to be adjustable for horizontal tilt, vertical tilt, vertical position (down-pressure), and horizontal position (blade-to-flange gap).  It doesn't appear that the guides pictured have these adjustment capabilities.

[50 Acre Jim]

Guides need to be adjustable for horizontal tilt, vertical tilt, vertical position (down-pressure), and horizontal position (blade-to-flange gap).  It doesn't appear that the guides pictured have these adjustment capabilities.

Finally broke down and called Norwood for support.  According to Trevor:

1) My logs are frozen, and I'm using a 10* pitch when I should be using a 7*
2) The roller guides they sell can't be adjusted and I need to remove it, put a large washer under it to achieve the required down pressure.
3) My blades are not tensioned properly.  

I am a bit miffed that Norwood sold me the roller guides without telling me I had to adust them with a washer but I'm glad to have a solution to that at any rate.  

Also, I have been tensioning the blades per the instruction manual, which is 5 1/2 turns after I get the blade taunt.  He says that is wrong and they had just released a video on proper tensioning.  Which is to tighten the T-handle to where it meets the frame and then tighten 10 turns.  

So anyhow, I have new hope now and will get back on it.

Thank you, everyone, for your help and suggestions.

Jim

[LeeB]

What brand blades are you using? Maybe try another. Have you recently switched brands? has all this happened with blades from the same order?

[50 Acre Jim]

What brand blades are you using? Maybe try another. Have you recently switched brands? has all this happened with blades from the same order?

I was using Norwood 1-1/4 X 7/8 X 167 but switched to Cooks of the same size.  I'm a fan of the Cooks blade, seems to be more robust and about $90.00 less (per a box of 10 blades).  Waviness persists, regardless of which blade I'm using.  

I'm hoping to find some improvement when I add more tension to the blade.  Although, I've been using the same method of tensioning my blades and didn't have the waviness problem before.  But maybe Trevor is correct, and it's because the logs have frozen.  One thing for sure, it's been 80* today so come Saturday I'll know whether or not it's because of frozen logs or not.

[dgdrls]

Frozen logs will raise heck with most any mill.

let the logs thaw, 

FWIW in-general the harder the log the less tooth angle u want to use.

good luck
D

[esteadle]

This is the worst suggestion that I can possibly think of, because you can't possibly have done this. 

But I did once... in front of a customer... 

Are you teeth going the right direction? 

I sharpened some of my bands, but forgot to invert them after setting the second direction (single tooth setter), and didn't even realize it when putting the band on the mill. The *DanG thing CUT! Once or twice. 

But not 3x and not more than 6" in a cut. 

It was all me. I sharpened it. I set it. I forgot to invert it. And I didn't notice it when I put it on. 
A very embarrassing mistake to make in front of a customer. 
But he did end up with some fine ray-flecked 6/4 oak to make his wine racks with, after I turned my blades right side out again. 

[Bandmill Bandit]

I find that I have to be extremely diligent with sharpening and setting when sawing frozen timber. Also found that a bit more set (30 - 32 thou) helps too. I think set may be the critical factor. Drive belt tension is important as well. Dont use the blade TOO long either. The mill will let you know when it time to change. 

     

[ladylake]

 I'm sawing frozen white oak and what ever else with no problems with wavy cuts, frozen wood is not the problem. The first thing I'd do is to make sure there is 1/4" down pressure, if those rollers are just touching the blade they do no good. Someone mentioned the brand of the blades, I've run across 2 brands that wouldn't cut straight even brand new, put on a old Simonds sharpened over 10 times that cut perfect for over 2 hours in wide white oak .  Steve

[50 Acre Jim]

Well, I tried the recommendations I got from Norwood support.  One was to thaw out the cant and to try a brand new blade.  So I put up a 12" poplar that has been in the sun all day.  Soft wood, very much not-frozen.   Brand new Cooks blade. 

Here is a video of what I got.

https://youtu.be/y_nI45_dIgs

[ladylake]

 
 Jim  You need to get that 1/4" down pressure then report back.  Steve

[50 Acre Jim]

Jim  You need to get that 1/4" down pressure then report back.  Steve

I agree Steve.  But here's the problem.  There isn't any "easy" way to do that.  The roller guides were supposed to be a "plug-n-play" replacement for the ceramic guides, but to get 1/4" downforce on the blade is surely NOT plug and play. 

According to Norwood Support today, I can take them off and put a washer in to shim it down.  But it's not anywhere as easy as it sounds.    I hate to go through all that and not see an acceptable difference.

The only reason I even invested the money on the roller guides was because I didn't like paying Norwood $25.00 for a .50 piece of ceramic each time one of them wore out.  

[starmac]

I would be pulling my hair out.
The only time mine ever cut anything remotely like that is when I first got it, I was not tightening the band as much as I thought, or at least not as much as it needed to be, but it would still cut pretty much fine, but start waving pretty quick as it started dulling.

Is there a possibility the bands are rubbing on the wheels and flattening the set?
Any chance the bands were somehow damaged during shipping and or handling.
Besides  the guides, what else has changed or been worked on, since it presumadly cut straight?
Maybe band brand change?

The way you reached up and turned the guide with the band tight, does not seem right, I don't think I could do that very easily with mine, but It seems like it should cut straighter than what it is, with NO guides at all.

[LeeB]

Check your drive belt tension or maybe replace it. Do you hear the engine bog any at all while sawing?

[Chuck White]

I agree with Steve, the blade guide rollers need to be 1/4 inch lower than the band wheels

[50 Acre Jim]

Check your drive belt tension or maybe replace it. Do you hear the engine bog any at all while sawing?

Seems like something I would have noticed so I don't think so.  


Edit:  There has been a couple of references to the Drive Belt in the previous posts.  How would a drive belt how the band is cutting?  I mean, if it were so loose that it was slipping I could see it.  This one isn't loose, shows no wear and is quite taunt. 

[LeeB]

If the blade isn't achieving full speed due to a slipping belt it will wander all over the place. Even without guides, a sharp, properly set blade should cut straight.