Ever Notice...

[timber tramp]

  That because you work in the woods, people think you're dumb? Stopped in at a fast food place the other evening, the guy taking my order had this real superior attitude toward me, while I'm waiting for my food another guy in a suit ordered some food, no attitude at all. Very nicely I confronted the young man behind the counter about this and he told me straight up that "everyone knows loggers are'nt very bright". Explained to him that if he has a bad day at work, he can go home and shrug it off, but for myself and others like me, a bad day involves emergency surgery and/or corpses. Just wondering if anyone has had similar experiences.

[beenthere]

I wouldn't conclude that "people think woods workers are dumb" from a comment by a fast food worker.  In a way, it is doing the same thing regards judging people.

But ya have to know if a guy makes the comment "everyone knows loggers aren't very bright" to a logger, he is a brick short of a full load, and asking for a facefull of knuckles...IMO.

In answer to "Ever Notice...." I'd say "no".   ;D ;D

[scgargoyle]

I've had it happen one time- at a car dealership. I'm a tool maker, so I wear working clothes, and am sometimes a bit dirty. I was shopping for a NEW truck, and stopped in at a dealership. I looked at everything in the showroom for about 20 minutes, while a group of salesmen stood in the corner gabbing amongst themselves. I made a small show of walking out in a huff, and a salesman followed me all the way out to my car as I drove away. I was ready and prepared to buy a brand new truck (which I later did, somewhere else) and they ignored me. I actually enjoyed the driving away part!

[thecfarm]

Yes,but i hear about the Farmers mostly.Wasn't for the Farmers a lot would go hungry.By the way,it does not take too many smarts to work in a fast food place,IMHO.But I do not judge people by the way they dress or where they work.Like I say at work,Are we still in 3rd grade?
I do know of a logger that would of dragged him over the counter and out in the parking lot.

[woodmills1]

I have noticed it, mostly when I am dirty from work and also unshaven.  I then usually add that I taught high school for 27 years, and get oh wood shop.  It really changes when I say no, physics........except for the the guy who then said Oh gym teacher then

[Maineloggerkid]

Even at my age, I have gotten this on occasion. Usually I don't take kindly to this, to the tune of non-verbal communication. If I am in a gentle mood, I politley tell them that while I may look dumb, I had highest honors in school and graduated 17 out of 60.

[Ianab]

I think the comeback should have been:

"5 mins training and I can do your job.. can you do MY job??"

I live in a mostly farming area, the guys in the overalls and dirty boots ARE the ones with the money. No one really trusts the fancy suits, they are probably from out of town anyway.  ;) :D

Ian

[Bro. Noble]

Right out of college,  I got a job with the Univ. of Mo Extension Division.  In a couple of years,  I was an area specialist.  I often wore a suit and tie and was well respected in the community.  Myself,  I knew that I didn't earn my pay and did little good for the community.  I farmed on the side and after a while,  I quit the extension job and taught Veterans Ag. classes and later HS Voc Ag.  After a few years of not feeling like I was doing much good,  I started milking and sawmilling and quit working off the farm entirely.  I guess most people who knew me felt like I really tumbled off the socio-economic ladder.

It doesn't matter a bit what the clerk at McDonalds or anyone else thinks about me.  I feel lots better about myself than I did when I wore a suit. ;D

[Tom]

It's a phenomena that I've spoken about before on the forum.  I've been judged and find it silly rather than intimidating, now that I think I understand.

Every occupation has "Better'n thou's" but I've noticed that the bulk of the look-down-the-noses come from what we have called, in the past, Yuppies.  Yuppies was a word that was coined to describe Young Urban Professionals.  While these aren't a new breed, their proliferation occurred after WWII with the idea that all young people, who didn't complete college, were failures.  The Universities were filled with every color, shape and size of youth who deemed himself to be the saviour of the human race.  They studied every profession that could be dreamed up by man and were so brain washed that they thought/think that they are the only ones who know what is going on and have few peers.

Unfortunately, the mainstay of the economy, The Trades, were relegated to those in High School who were having trouble with the three "R's" or those who had no designs on college, whatever the reason.

The Trades were identified with people who worked with their hands. Those who weren't high enough in the pecking order of society to work in an office.  To be sent to "woodshop" was a sign of showing you your "level", and your ignorance.

I've been in both worlds.  My salvation was that I was raised by a family that appreciated anyone who was trying to make a living.   The failure occurred when you judged someone else as inferior.  My Granddad was a Lawyer and judge and so was his brother.  Two other brothers were Doctors.  They didn't judge others as serfs or barons but as people living within a world provided by their opportunities.

I worked for a man (used loosely) who judged employees, applicants and customers by their attained grade level.  Quoting him, "A man who finishes college shows that he has the aptitude to complete a mission".  What a crock! 

"One should never judge another's success by his own goals."

In the White collar world, I found more college educated than not who were lost when it came getting the job done and those designated as Blue Collar mentality who jumped in with both feet and asked for no blessings.

In the Blue collar world, I found people who were failures in school, failures in work and would forever be failures in society because they didn't make an effort to learn, to accomplish or succeed.  They found themselves wallering in the bowels of the human race because that is where they were least challenged.  How could you fail if you were on the bottom?

Being on the bottom also helps to hide the insecurities of those who are intimidated by life. By associating with a level of society that is below you, you make the appearance of being a smarter person.   So, these people pick a smaller pond to be a big fish.

The consequences of this 'apparent' division of classes lead to the Yuppies thinking that they were better because they worked in an office and a clean environment.   Many began to judge others, not because they weren't educated, but because they worked with their hands.

I've experienced many situations, as a sawyer, when working for young people who live in certain parts of town, when they act superior to me as they stand in the air-conditioning behind their plate glass living room window, with drink in hand, watching me cut up their 30" diameter pine log; a task they wouldn't even know how to start and wouldn't approach without first renting a crane, bulldozer, fork lift and operators.  

Not knowing even enough to say what they wanted cut from the log, they would still hold their chest out and walk around the yard, "inspecting", as if to say, "I'm making sure that you are working hard enough".

It never dawned on them to ask themselves if they knew who I was, from whence I had come, how many times I had already retired while they were trying to figure out what to do with their lives.  It never occurred to them to question my education,  whether formal or not, and what my life's experiences may have been to allow me to do what I was doing.  It never occurred to them to wonder if I could afford the same amenities that they graced upon themselves.

When I would leave the job and head for my 47 acre homestead, with their money in my pocket, I might pass the big office with the biggest window in the building where I retired the first time, or drive by the Navy base that represented the best schooling system in which I was ever enrolled.  I could drive by dump trucks, construction workers, salesmen, retail clerks and county employees, saying to myself, I've done that. I may hear the music flowing out of a dance hall, pass a motorcycle race track, watch a cropduster filling his plane, and say, "I've done that."  I'll see bulldozers and backhoes, tractors with mowers and boxblades, and know, "I've done that".  Do they know that I was a trained life guard, a trained and certified life guard instructor, a competition swimmer and diver and a fair to middling baseball player?

I'll stand next to one of these yuppie's peers in a grocery store, who is using bad grammar, spouting profanity and talking publicly about subjects that are even questionable in private, and know that I'm above that.

I know that I'm not ignorant.  I know that I can communicate with any man of any level, and do it on his level, if need be.

I don't need the glitz and superior attitude to know my worth, and have learned who it is that I have to impress.

I've got friends in all walks of life, all economic levels, all educational levels and find that even the most ignorant of them know more about something than I do.

I've traveled from the west coast to the east, the north to the South, and I don't think you could find even a minuscule difference in the way some people judge others. It depends on the way they were reared, life's lessons they were taught and, many times, whether they live in a fast paced Urban area or a slower rural place.

Generally speaking, "Folks's is good".  If you begin to look down on a class, it's you who are the failure.

If there is one important thing that Brother Dave taught me, it is , "Everywhere is South of something."

[Tim L]

Valid points all .

[SwampDonkey]

I agree with Ian and never did care about someones opinion of me, I could care less. Don't mean a pinch of snot to me one way or the other.

[Ron Wenrich]

When I first started to read this, I kind of figured that it never happened to me.  But, I know of at least one instance that was the case.

My wife and I are adoptive parents of a special needs child.  She was born in Seoul, Korea, and has an American father, so she doesn't have a lot of the Korean features.  We are also older parents, me being 41 years older.  

The school system has what is called an IEP (individual education program) for special needs kids, as well as others.  The first meeting was with teachers, principles, and psychiatrists.   I came directly from work to the meeting, and had on my work clothes and I know there was quite a bit of sawdust on me.  My wife worked in an office and probably looked like a secretary.

The meeting began with the introductions and I started to feel like they were talking down to me a bit.  The psychiatrist was probably the most condescending.  My wife and I just let them go and conduct their meeting and we just nodded our heads and let them continue.

Were there any questions?  Well, sure.  And when we started to use words that were a little bit above the 3rd grade level, they changed their attitude.  When we asked questions that they couldn't answer, there was no more talking down.  We were on a level playing field.

My wife and I talked about it and we figured out that there aren't many parents that go to those IEP meetings.  Quite often they figure the nut hasn't fallen far from the tree.  They are also accustomed to parents who want to yell and berate them.  Our meetings since the first one have gone very well.  I believe our reputation has preceded us.

I just love it when people talk down to me.  They usually only do it once.  They either are corrected or never get a second chance.

[Cedarman]

About 20 years or so ago a truck driver from Marengo came out to buy some cedar posts to fence his horses in.  Didn't have a lot of money and was looking for the cheapest way to go. He wasn't driving the finest truck in the world either.   I fixed him up. Never thought much about it.   I heard later that he had started a little company in California.  He comes through Marengo all the time and still has a son live a few miles away.  I didn't get to know him well, but I wish I had.  His name, Forest Lucas as in Lucas Oil.


So, you just don't "know" a person by their looks or what they're doing at this moment in time or what successes or failures they will have in the future.

[easymoney]

maybe i am a bit different. i at least seem to dance to a different drummer. i am prejudiced against the suits. the people who never get thier hands dirty and would not know how to. let one of those yuppy suits have a flat tire and they do not even know where thier spare tire is. and would not know how to change it if they could find it. yes more than one car salesman has been known to ignore or talk down to the farmer who came in asking about buying a new car or truck then finding out that he might reach in the bib of those faded overalls and pay cash for the new truck.

[pigman]

Well, since I quit the pig business and got into the wood business , my status moved up a notch or two. When I would go into a fast food place after hauling hogs to market, I was waited on very fast. smiley_airfreshener smiley_airfreshener  It seems they just wanted to get me out of the place as fast as possible.
My dad told  of a situation that happened back in 1936. A local farmer went to Louisville to sell some cattle. While he was in the city he decided to buy a new car. He was dressed in worn out clothes with his trousers held up with baling string. He went into the large Buick dealership and was literally shown the door. He proceded down the street to the Cadillac dealership. Of course the sales people were not very happy that what looked like a very poor person with dirty clothes was getting in their shinny new cars. When the farmer decided to buy one of the cars, the salesman was shocked and tried to get the farmer to leave. The owner then interceded and asked what was the problem. The farmer then told the owner that he wanted to buy a car, but it didn't seem the salesman was interested in his money. Since the owner was not the owner because he was a fool, he decide to call the farmers bank back in Carrollton. After a very short conversation with the bank the dealer told the farmer he could pick out any car he wanted and it would be ready to drive home in thirty minutes. The bank had told the dealer not to price the dealership if he did not want to sell it since the farmer had enough money in the bank to probably to buy it.  Somestimes it is hard to judge a book by it's cover.

[Osric]

There was a book written about a decade ago called, "The Millionaire Next Door".  It was the end product of some research on who exactly the real millionaires were in America.  Perhaps not surprisingly, the real millionaires were the people who had simple tastes (steak and beer), bought reliable cars (usually used) and drove them for years, and lived in a modest 2,000-2,500 square foot house.

People who drove the expensive cars and lived in McMansions were rarely wealthy, much less rich.  They lived beyond their means and never accumulated wealth (just toys).

Best story of the book was when the researchers through a 'party' for the local millionaires and had a spread of expensive wine, and fine food.  After noticing that the millionaires weren't eating anything (or drinking anything) one of the researchers approached a millionaire and asked if he could get him anything.  He was shocked when the rich guy said 'a beer.'  He asked what kind.  The millionaire replied, "Son, I drink two kinds of beer....Budweiser and free..."


kinda off topic, but thought I'd throw it in there.

[SwampDonkey]

I've heard of at least three old timers over the years that lived like paupers and had wealth. A couple were park benchers and another was a bachelor. The first two accumulated their wealth on their own, the last one inherited his wealth.

[SPIKER]

I heard similar story regarding SAM WALTON (as in WALMART) owner operator , drove around in an old ford pickup as a daily driver regardless of what people thought...   I have been looked down on too, only I got enough of a since of humor lto go after the people usually really put them on the spot.  ;)

Mark

[isawlogs]

 Well I have mellowed out with the years .... I now would get mad and sortof give that kid 15 minutes of my time explaning to him facts of life and how being behinds a fast food counter sure dont put him very high in the ladder of life .  :  
Back when I was young and foolish I had a fuse that was short , well I had no fuse at all , that kid would of been over the counter and not touch ground till his sorry butt was past the parking lot , if he was lucky and they think David Blain can levitate ...  

[Corley5]

  There's an old farmer west of here that has worked hard his entire life and is worth who knows how many $$$$$.  The original family homestead is up the hill from his present farmstead and he used have threshing route that included my great grandfather 8)  Wonderful old guy whom I always speak to him when I see him.   One of the stories that goes with Emil is that of a nephew who was interested in a farm near Ironton on the South Arm of Lake Charlevoix.  On the way home from the auction he and his Uncle Emil and Emil's brother, I forget his name, stopped to take a tour of the farm.  They pulled up in an old car that they had just hauled hogs to sale in, the seats had been removed in favor of buckets to sit on.  They took the tour of the farm under the supervision of the caretaker who barely had time for them and commented to someone later that he didn't know why they bothered as there was no way they could ever afford such a fine piece of real estate.  A week later they showed up again, paid cash for the estate and the caretaker was no longer needed.
 Emil also had a free range agreement for his cattle with the State of Mi dating back to the beginning.  He may still pasture state land to some extent but not as much as he used too.  Anyway a new to area state biologist decide he was going to make it a priority to do away with Emil's pasturing state land.  It wasn't long and word came down from the top in the state capitol that Emil was to be left alone  8) 8)
  If a McDonald's flunky would have made that comment to me I would have been talking to his manager  >:( 

[CLL]

Just noticed i the paper tonight a "poor farmer" back east left $2 million to a church with 80 members.

[Dave Shepard]

I've been underestimated my entire life. It started with the teachers in school. I was just a poor farm kid, I wasn't going anywhere. : I tell people the biggest mistake they can make is to underestimate me. I have a low threshold for people in retail/customer service who have bad attitudes. I am absolutely polite to the people I deal with every day, whether it be a banker, or the person working at a fast food joint who is trying their best, but don't give me an attitude. ;)

Several years ago I was trying to make some changes in my finances. I jumped into business with both feet, then was injured in an ATV accident. The hot shot banker I was dealing with was trying to con me into refinancing my tractor at almost twice the interest rate, except he wasn't using the right apr when he calculated my monthly payments. He also wanted me to sell the atv, and pay off as much of that loan as I could, and he would at the remainder into the new loan. (Hmm, a loan on nothing?  >:( ) I caught his little trick, and had a conversation a little higher up. I don't know what ever happened to him, but I never saw him again.

[Handy Andy]

  I get that crap too.  I drive a 91 toyota pu, don't shave every day, and those guys that look down on me, I could buy out and donate to the salvation army.

[Dave Shepard]

I like stories where the tables get turned.

A used tractor guy near here bought a farm at auction years ago to prevent the bankers from buying it for a steal. He had just come out of the barn and looked the part. It was struck off to him for $140k. They asked him how he expected to pay for it. "Cash still works, don't it?", and pulled out a pile of it. :D

My grandfather told me a story of a local mill owner who wanted to get his wife a fur coat for Christmas. He drove up to the big department store after work, covered in dirt and sawdust and picked out one he thought she'd like. The coat was apparently quite expensive, and the teller was unsure of his check, so he went to talk to his manager. The managers reply? "You'd better take it, or he'll buy the place and we'll be working for him tomorrow!"  :D

[beenthere]

Happened to me, as the Bank Pres. was in our bridge group.
Had a large check to write when in another state once, and the car broke down. They questioned it (don't blame them a bit) and I gave them the bank's tele number.

Guy came back smiling and said something like "The Bank said they'd cover your check regardless what you write it for"".    I didn't tell him I played cards with him, nor that my wife worked at the Bank for him.    Was fun tho.