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Logging truck

Started by Busysawyer, July 08, 2018, 10:56:06 AM

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Southside

Beaver,

One thing I have seen in the responses are that the guys who say owning a truck is mandatory and a good investment are all loggers, not sawmill operators. They get paid to haul logs, drop them off and go get more. If I understand correctly you want to be in the sawmill business, not the logging business, look at things from that perspective as you decide what you want to invest.  

One could make the analogy that diesel for the mill is expensive so on paper buying a refinery would save money for the mill, but in reality does it let you actually net more? 
Franklin buncher and skidder
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Woodmizer LT Super 70 and LT35 sawmill, KD250 kiln, BMS 250 sharpener and setter
Riehl Edger
Woodmaster 725 and 4000 planner and moulder
Enough cows to ensure there is no spare time.
White Oak Meadows

Busysawyer

Barbender , I was thinking about once a week at this point but it sure does look like it will get used more in the near future. My dad was talking today about trying to find other work with it when we don't need to haul our own. He's thinking he's going to try and haul something everyday of the week. That's fine and he would do it but you know who's going to have to find work for that truck? I am. I'm feeling like my plates pretty full at the moment and he's pulling out another one to load up for me. 
Corley, I would really appreciate any help locating a decent truck. My dad was looking at that 70k truck but was asking me how much new trucks were. I told him too much. He's of the mindset of buying new or newer for fear of buying someone else's problems. I told him I'd put in 30k and he can put in whatever he wants and get whatever he wants. If he wants to drive a truck full time he can have at it. I just want to make piles of sawdust. 
Southside , the guys I talk to around here that run mills have their own logging crews and equipment and tell me I'm going to be better off if I can get my own crew and equipment.  Personally I don't want to be a logger or a truck driver but I wouldn't mind having them on the payroll. I've called about every trucking and logging company within a hundred miles of here and I get the same story. We just log for our own mill and if we have extra we sell some here and there. I have 2 loggers that are helping me out at the moment but they both have their own mills and are just getting me going I'm not counting on it long term. If I could find a couple more guys to buy logs from I'd give up on this truck nonsense and stop going around trying to buy timber. At this point I'm waiting to go visit with the father in law. He's flying out from Arizona to show me his property and if that goes the way he says I'll be trying to get into the logging business asap.  
Even a blind squirrel finds a nut every once in awhile

chevytaHOE5674

The guys I know that make a good living trucking logs are the guys that buy new trucks and drive them for a few years and then trade them before the problems start. They also drive them 5 or 6 days a week 12+ hours a day.

Also with a log truck you generally put "log" plates on it because it is the only affordable way to plate a truck with that capacity. Log plates limit you to hauling a raw product ie: logs. If you go hauling lumber on that truck then you need apportioned plates because its no longer a raw material, which will get pricey.

Funny UP here in logging country we have sawmills, loggers, and truckers, mostly separate businesses. Some mills have a logging and trucking crew but a majority of their logs still come from 3rd parties.

Ianab

Quote from: chevytaHOE5674 on July 10, 2018, 12:51:35 AMThe guys I know that make a good living trucking logs are the guys that buy new trucks and drive them for a few years and then trade them before the problems start. They also drive them 5 or 6 days a week 12+ hours a day.


That's basically how things work locally too. All the log trucks on the road are fairly late model, not necessarily new, but new enough that they are reliable and worth keeping on the road. Some of the larger logging crews have their own trucks. Some of the larger mills have their own trucks. Others are just trucking companies that work for whoever needs logs moved. 

Once you start paying for the truck / licencing etc, then the way to make money is to keep the truck rolling and earning $$. Have the contacts with the loggers and mills, and work with them. 

Basically no one runs smaller trucks to haul logs as the economics don't work out, and the "network" is there to access trucking as needed. 

Of course there is a lot of trucks on the road. Probably a truck and trailer rolling through town every 5 mins, with half a dozen companies in the business. Competition keeps the rates down, but there are making $$.
Weekend warrior, Peterson JP test pilot, Dolmar 7900 and Stihl MS310 saws and  the usual collection of power tools :)

Firewoodjoe

There a necessary burden. And not cheap. New used they all cost a lot. I know I drive and maintain one. You sound small I would not buy a Michigan truck. To much truck and there $400,000 new for a reason. If your just supplying yourself and sawing "lower production" buy a gooseneck with a loader on it. Google the "wheeler gooseneck" haul for yourself when you can and hire when they are available. I've found buying things that others would also buy is helpful. People love gooseneck trailers. And you could sell that fast if need be. That $70,000 mi truck is ragged out and you will sit on it. Either with it broke or waiting for someone to buy it.

snowstorm

why not a trailer or 2. 1 log 1 flat or a flat with stakes. a decent tractor. a forwarder to pull your logs and load the trailer. you will need a crane in the mill yard anyway  

David-L

Quote from: snowstorm on July 09, 2018, 05:59:58 AM
the mack ad says 10 sp. if its really a 8ll thats good if its the old rt1110 or the super 10. no. if you cant drive it and fix it you got no bussiness owning one.
id' kill for an 8ll in mine. I've got a 7 speed maxi-torque. 5th in direct will let you go 70mph plus if you dare unloaded.
In two days from now, tomorrow will be yesterday.

mike_belben

A bunch of wise fellows have told me.. One good truck tractor and a bunch of trailers.  I am with snowstorm. 

A self loader only does logs well.  A tractor can do it all.  When you have a driver to employ youll send him off for logs, send him off with lumber, send him to move the skidder or knuckleboom, move a buddies hay gear, do power only stuff.. Etc.  Easier to keep a tractor busy.  Make sure you got a 2 way wet kit.
Praise The Lord

mike_belben


The only nice thing i will say about old trucks is if they got fuel and crank fast theyll start.  No dealer diagnostic baloney.  And you can overhaul an old truck piece by piece as you can afford while deducting the parts entirely as capital expense in that year.  When you go buy a ready to run truck as one lump sum, its a capital depreciation spread over 7yrs or so. Now Im not saying that will solve a trucking problem in the moment.. Just throwing out that a commercial truck can be a good tax shelter.  Put 40k in your mustang and uncle sam taxes the 40k as income.   Put 40k in your petercar and he mails you a big refund check.  Pre ELD classic tractors are not losing value at all.  Older skidder isnt a bad tax haven either, the parts will again generate an immediate expense deduction and youll have a machine with new parts. 
Praise The Lord

Busysawyer

Thank you for all the advice.  I got dad talked out of a truck for the moment. I told him to wait and see how things play out for a month or two.
Even a blind squirrel finds a nut every once in awhile

mike_belben

It doesnt happen to me often at all, but the hardest thing to do when you actually have money is to twiddle your thumbs and let all those great ideas marinate for a while.  Money begets spending. 
Praise The Lord

Satamax

I don't know how it is in the US, but here, there is an italian guy, who crosses the border every now and then, to fetch some larch, with a JCB fastrac, and a huge trailer. Agricultural plates on the trailer. He doesn't need the licence to drive this. Insurance and all that is cheap.  The tractor has been modified a bit i think. Cos he does a good 35/40mph empty with the trailer. And he does a good 80 miles trip and return. 
French CD4 sawmill. Latil TL 73. Self moving hydraulic crane. Iveco daily 4x4 lwb dead as of 06/2020. Replaced by a Brimont TL80 CSA.

Bruno of NH

The trailer I posted a picture of is a big trailer. 
The only reason it's not a goose neck is my friend had a chip truck to haul it with all ready.
I would look into the trailer if it was me.
Lt 40 wide with 38hp gas and command controls , F350 4x4 dump and lot of contracting tools

Maine logger88

Would your friend sell that tractor with the center mount flatbed? I'm with snowstorm and mike that would be better suited to hauling logs as well as the finished product. You could also pick up a flatbed without a loader for deliveries as well as pick up a low bed for moving equipment 
79 TJ 225 81 JD 540B Husky and Jonsered saws

4x4American

Tractor with wetline and a bunch of trailers would be ideal...but from the sounds of it you don't have enough room to park it in your yard let alone unload/load the thing.  I reccomend get a cheap triaxle log truck with a decent loader on it.  That'll get your foot in the door, help you get started and into wood.  Easy to manuever in tight areas.  You're talking about logging 8 acres, well, it'll be alot easier getting in and out of those jobs with a triaxle than with a TT.  With a TT you're gonna either be building roads or pulling the thing out when it's stuck.  My friend@Onlyonrubber will tell ya, he cuts company wood and they build the roads for him to get in and out of with tt's.  Not to mention with their big equipment they need a 15 acre header to operate lol. It's incredible how many uses you'll find for a log truck around the yard in general.  Then take the extra capital and get a real loader (like a 544 JD or a IT28 Cat - skidsteers are for smalltimers lol) and expand your yard because you're gonna need TT access and plenty of room for all your different sorts of logs and lumber and slabwood.  And don't forget to leave yourself some money for buying wood.


Boy, back in my day..

Busysawyer

Bruno, I've looked into those trailers a little but so far haven't found any that can handle very much weight.  What brand is that trailer? Will it lift a 6000 pound log? I closed the deal on a walnut timber job last night that will be substantially larger than the load I had delivered last night.  

 

 

 
How many trips do you think it would take with that trailer to haul these 2 loads? Would that trailer handle being fully loaded with hardwoods?
Maine logger, he talked about selling it but he said that trailer wouldn't handle the weight that we would like to haul.
4x4 we are going to come back to the truck deal at a later date. Need some time to look around, consider options and I need to educate myself on trucks before I can make the best decision for us.
The guy that delivered that load for us was diving an 88 kenworth 800. He said he's had it for 12 years and has had very few issues with it. He said his opinion was guys that trash trucks run them hard, don't maintenance like they should and run in a different environment. He said around here is easier on trucks than northern MI.  No hills, mostly highway and no logging roads.
Even a blind squirrel finds a nut every once in awhile

Skeans1

Have you looked into a self loading mule train?

Corley5

Two machines pushing and one pulling to get 160,000 lbs of loaded truck through mud holes is probably considered severe service ;D ;D
Burnt Gunpowder is the Smell Of Freedom

thecfarm

Corley5,I would like to see a picture of that.  :o  
I have seen them push a truck up my small hill coming out of the woods. But no one was pulling too. And only one forwarder was pushing.
Model 6020-20hp Manual Thomas bandsaw,TC40A 4wd 40 hp New Holland tractor, 450 Norse Winch, Heatmor 400 OWB,YCC 1978-79

Bruno of NH

Busybeaver
It would take 4 or 5 trips with that trailer.
I think it lifts 4,000
I will check
I can't remember the make.
The sponsor Pickens Equipment makes them also. 
If you got a short straight truck with log bunks you can load both.
Lt 40 wide with 38hp gas and command controls , F350 4x4 dump and lot of contracting tools

4x4American

No offense but for the price of one of those gooseneck log trailers you could buy two decent triaxle log trucks!  I have an '89 freightliner triaxle I picked up for 10 grand awhile back.  I got mainly it for a yard truck to unload trailers and sort logs, but I think with some tlc I'll have her on the road.  Frame is in nice shape, bunks in good shape, new hydraulic pump, big cam cummins under the hood, Hood 7000 in decent shape.  She's a little rough around the edges.  I got offered 15k for it today from a logger.  Told him not for sale.
Boy, back in my day..

Corley5

Quote from: thecfarm on July 11, 2018, 02:11:07 PM
Corley5,I would like to see a picture of that.  :o  

When this is going on there's no time for picture taking.  The truck needs to get on the road and the machines back to producing wood ;) ;D :)
Burnt Gunpowder is the Smell Of Freedom

cashman234

Thats crazy prices for the trucking.  What is the cost per mile.

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