Opening up logs/fancy sawing

[4x4American]

I have read that when you are opening up logs, the best thing to do if you can clamp it is saw the belly first.  So I have been doing that.  Does anyone else have any advice to new sawyers on methods for opening up logs/fancy sawing techniques?  I have a hard time deciding where to go with a cant sometimes.  I try to minimize waste as best as possible, and see ahead where certain cuts will lead to.  I know experience is the best teacher, but I also like to read as much as I can on anything that I'm trying to learn.

[Evergreen Man]

Thats why I've read every post that comes up, there's a little to learn in each one ;) I'm going to be keeping a special eye on this thread and see what I can learn.

[JB Griffin]

I'll be staying tuned to this one too.

[5quarter]

You shouldn't open up a log without knowing what you need to get out of it. That will determine how you saw it. For example, sawing 2x for a building will have a completely different saw pattern than sawing 1x for the siding, . In hardwoods, sawing for grade and quartersawing are the 2 most common types, yet there are many ways to do both. To further complicate things you may change up mid sawing to take advantage of some feature in the log, or perhaps the log won't give you what you're after.
  Once you know what you're sawing for, it helps to what logs will give you what you want. For example, not every big oak log should be QS. You need to really look at what you have. Does the log have a lot of sweep? does it have a pronounced twist? a lot of taper? not good for quartersawing. Make a fresh, clean cut of the end and  examine the rays. are they very thin or have a curved path to the center? not good for QSing. Knowing what your log will yield will really help you match up what you need get out of what logs you have. You'll also be able to get the highest value the log can offer. That big oak log may make lousy QS, but it may have a high % of FAS, for example.
  I know you were looking for sawing techniques, but that's a pretty general topic. maybe if we knew what you were sawing, the Boys could offer some ways of sawing it.

[4x4American]

Thanks 5 Quarter.  You nailed it!  I am coming up on a job for a friend sawing big white oaks and red oaks into 1-1/8" x 6" x 8' boards for flooring.  His reason for having them 6" wide is that there will be less handling.  He's stacking them under a little port to air dry for awhile then I'm trucking them to a local hardwoods place to be kiln dried/planed/T+G then back to the port to keep them air drying until he's ready to build.d

[Magicman]

Which face you open first is your call, but the saw through had better be from the horn or hump face to prevent crooked boards.

[beenthere]

stacking them under a little port to air dry for awhile then I'm trucking them to a local hardwoods place to be kiln dried/planed/T+G then back to the port to keep them air drying until he's ready to build

And let them pick up moisture again? 
Makes the expense of kiln drying a bit un-necessary and will result in crooked flooring from my experience storing kiln dried wood.
Keep in an air drying stack until he's ready and then kiln dry plane and run to flooring pattern, would be my suggestion.

[WH_Conley]

x2 with beenthere.

Sawing just 1 width really adds to the slab pile. I have been sawing for a Chinese guy for export the last few months and that is all they want is 6". Better charge more for sawing. Same amount of sawing, less chargeable product. If you have a market for tomato stakes you could edge in 1" drops and salvage some that way.

[4x4American]

Thanks, I'll tell him about that.

So another thing I wonder about from this job:
When we get a decent enough log, I can get 3 rows 6" wide.  When I'm making the 6" dimensions is where I had to take my time to think about it the first few ones.  I need to make sure the cant is just the right size so that I get my three rows to all be 6".  Or even when I'm halfing a cant, I have a hard time getting both pieces perfect.

So what I do is figure that I have to cornsider two 1/8" kerfs.  So I'll make the cant 18-1/4" or 12-1/8" to make the pieces 6" wide.  Now, where do I come in to start cranking out 6" pieces?  My scale measures to the bottom of the blade.  So what I've been doing on say a 18-1/4" cant is I'll come in at 12-1/8" then right at 6".  Is there an easier way to calculate it or am I doing it kinda right?  It usually comes pretty dang close.

Another thing I have been getting on the oak is a bell at the entrance.  I learned on here that you gotta saw from the top of the tree to the butt.  I don't believe I was doing that last time I was there sawing.

(Sorry, I think in puzzle pieces and it's hard to piece everything together.  My mind races at times and everything comes out jumbled)

[4x4American]

I read on a woodmizer thing: sawing takes an hour to learn, a lifetime to master

[Magicman]

I would contend that you never stop learning, or at least being taught.  One never graduates from the school of hard knocks.   smiley_dizzy  smiley_dunce

[5quarter]

... sawing takes an hour to learn, a lifetime to master

Ain't that the truth. 8)

[Ugly Tree]

Which face you open first is your call, but the saw through had better be from the horn or hump face to prevent crooked boards.

Magic, what do you mean by "saw through?" Is this your last cut to square your cant?  Or your first?

[4x4American]

I could be wrong, but I think he means all the boards.  Kinda hard to put it.  Pretty much I think he's saying when you get it to size and you start sawing all the way through, the horn/hump face should be down or up. 

The way I see it, that will help prevent crooking, but wouldn't that make the board prone to bowing?  I guess bowing is less worse than crooking, though.

[Magicman]

Well said 4X4.


 
This cant is squared and ready to saw through and the hump side of the log is up.  (Notice that the pith check will be contained within a couple of boards.)

[4x4American]

Thanks, Magic.  Say, your picture didn't post  :P

[5quarter]

4x4... Depends on the final use for the lumber. for framing and siding etc...crook (side bend) is worse than bow. for cabinet and furniture work where short stock is common, bow is much worse than crook. a hardwood log with a little sweep in it will have a little crook; easy to deal with. logs with a lot of sweep are pulp or firewood logs.  ;)

[4x4American]

Ahhh..I see I see said the blind man to his deaf son as he whizzed into the wind...it's all coming back to me

[Ga Mtn Man]

So another thing I wonder about from this job:
When we get a decent enough log, I can get 3 rows 6" wide.  When I'm making the 6" dimensions is where I had to take my time to think about it the first few ones.  I need to make sure the cant is just the right size so that I get my three rows to all be 6".  Or even when I'm halfing a cant, I have a hard time getting both pieces perfect.

So what I do is figure that I have to cornsider two 1/8" kerfs.  So I'll make the cant 18-1/4" or 12-1/8" to make the pieces 6" wide.  Now, where do I come in to start cranking out 6" pieces?  My scale measures to the bottom of the blade.  So what I've been doing on say a 18-1/4" cant is I'll come in at 12-1/8" then right at 6".  Is there an easier way to calculate it or am I doing it kinda right?  It usually comes pretty dang close.

There's nothing wrong with doing it that way, but why aren't you using your setworks to do it?  You have five programmable presets to choose from.

[4x4American]

yup

[pine]

I think the WM Accuset 2 has a bit more fancy stuff/capability than the TK setworks.   The TK setworks is a bit more simplistic in its functionality.  Not saying it is lesser just different. 

It always needs to know where home is; 1" from the bed.  It needs to know where the return height is, so that it can rise enough to clear the cant/log on the return to the head of the mill.  With the 5 different "preset"  settings/thicknesses that can be programed it seems to be pretty accurate in repeatability.  What I find works for me is to drop the head via the setworks using the auto-down button when I am making my first cut.  For example if I am going to cut 1x's, I set home and return and the preset at 1", then I use autodown to make my opening cut on that side.  Since it measures up from the bed, the first cut where ever I put it is one that will allow me to make 1x's all the way down without any wasted "burn boards" (however your slab  may be a bit thicker/thinner than you want but it keeps all the flitches and cant "cut boards" the same thickness).  If you put the opening slab cut on any given side where ever you want it and then start taking the auto down calculations it will most likely have your first board thinner than you want thus your burn board is created.   Remember it always measures up from the bottom home position.  If you hit return not only do you reset the return height but it seems to also start the drop calculations over from that return height; which does have a good benefit if you accidentally hit auto down twice instead of once. (don't ask how I know that one)
What I have found challenging is to use the setworks to switch from say a 1x to a 2x or 4x in the same log without getting a wasted small thinner board.

[Larry]

That's an easy one.  Get your 6" drops programed in and make sure the setworks will be using 6" drops.  With the blade up anywhere above 18 1/4" (dependent on kerf setting) hit the return button.  Next hit down and it will stop on 18 1/4.  After that its just hitting up and down buttons.

If it is the first log of the day go through 3 or 4 false cycles to get the setworks zeroed in.

[pine]

I don't know how to get it to start in a cut where I want it, for example: if I have it set to 6" drops and I want first cut to be at 18-1/4" I don't know how to get the computer programmed to start at 18-1/4".  I talked with the TK folks and they said there's no way to tell the computer box where you want to start.  Which I know makes sense to others but it just don't click with me.  If I bring it to 18-1/4" it says it on the computer screen, why can't it calculate from there down in whatever increment drops I want?  How come it has to make a burn board first?

If you are doing 6" beams then the three 6" beams plus the 2 kerfs should have the setworks put the first cut close to 18 1/4" (see below)

Not knowing what blade you are using but if an 0.042 blade with set of 0.022 yields 0.042+0.022+0.022=.086 kerf  The setworks comes from TK with a KER (kerf) set at 0.08 a little less than 0.086.  (Wish TK setworks had three decimal points but this is rough cut lumber isn't it.)  If you run a higher set (say 0.024") then maybe change the KER to 0.09.  The KER at 0.08 only exactly works for a set of 0.019 which is a little low I think)
I have not tried it but will to see what mine does given your inputs.

Edit  10 minutes later
Well I went out and gave it a try.  Repeated a couple of times.  6" preset thickness; set home; set return at 19 1/2 just to give some room for first cut drop; and hit auto down.  First time 18 1/4, then 12 1/8, then 6 inches.  Repeat same results.

[kensfarm]

I have the simple setworks so it's a little different.  If I was making dimensional 2x6's.. and can make 3 sets across.. I would usually measure/mark and make the 5 1/2 cuts manually..  then use the setworks for the 1 1/2 cuts. 

You manually set/move the blade to the first cut position..  set preference to 1 1/2.. set start position..  make your first cut.. once you've brought the head back from the cut..  just hit autodown.  It will position to the next cut.  Now after every cut & return..   just hit autodown.  Clear as mud?

I cut everything when I first started..  as my log stock has increased in size/quality..  I have less & less tolerance for small or crooked logs.. my firewood pile benefits.  This was a nice ash log cut using setworks.




 

[Texas Ranger]

Magic Man, that is the School of Hard Knots!   smiley_swinging_board