Near miss.

[Ianab]

Got the mill out of storage this morning in preparation of milling mission coming up.

Thought, I best check the oil in the trusty Briggs, and when I took the plug/dipstick out, fluid pours out. 

Oily Petrol.  ???

Rats, the fuel valve had been left open. Drips through the carb, piston, and into the sump.

Well I guess it was due for an oil change anyway  :

Lucky I checked it before I fired it up, don't think it would have done the bearings any favours. Then spent most of the afternoon getting the blade alignment something close to right.

[Kbeitz]

Many engines have died from leaky carbs.

[bandmiller2]

Rule of thumb, any engine with a fuel tank higher than the carb must have a shutoff, that is used. Old farm tractors are particularly bad in this regard. In fact its good form to shut off the gas and let the engine run dry, if that's how you kill the engine you won't forget. Frank C.

[kelLOGg]

The same thing happened on my tiller. I drained the oil sump, rinsed with oil several times pulling the crank between rinses and made a final filling. Finally got it started and it has run well since. I had not shut the gas tank line off so I guess the carb was stuck open.
Bob

[MartyParsons]

Hello,
   I was reading about airplane engines in cold weather add fuel to the engine oil so the engine will start easier. Note said that no engine damage would occur because the fuel would evaporate once engine was started. 
Just saying.
I am not saying to try this in your small engine at home. I would not try it!!

Marty

[4x4American]

A near miss is a hit!


https://youtu.be/zDKdvTecYAM

[WV Sawmiller]

Ian,

   Glad you caught it before there were problems.

   I can honestly say with 426 hours on my mill I have never yet cranked it without first checking the oil. same thing in my lawnmowers. I am less careful on my vehicles.

   Starting back when I was in the USMC and ever since then any time we had an accident or a near miss (which I defined as an accident that was prevented by pure dumb luck) I had the individual(s) involved give a safety class to the entire group covering:
1. What happened
2. What caused it
3. What Made it worse than normal
4. What helped from making it worse (PPE, etc)
5. What would have prevented the accident or near miss
6. What did you learn from the incident?

   I found my team listened much better to a teammate talking in everyday terms they understood than me as their OIC or supervisor. It was even more effective when the person giving the class was standing there talking with a black eye, stitches in his head,  bandages or a cast or his arm or hand, etc.

[Sixacresand]

Glad you pay attention and check your equipment.

[sealark37]

It is true that the large radial aircraft engines used oil dilution to thin the engine oil for cold weather starts.  That gasoline was injected into the lube system, which was a dry sump system, just prior to the engine oil pump.  The amount of gas injected was less than a quart, which was injected into a system that held over 20 gallons.  Not only was it vaporized by the heat of the engine, the engine burned from 1-2 gallons an hour of oil.  Not enough gas to change the lube qualities of the engine oil.  In a small engine, it is easy to leak more gas into the sump than there is oil in the sump.  At that point, the gas washes down the bearings, and the end is near.  It is just as bad to have too much oil as too little on the dipstick.        Regards, Clark

[MbfVA]

Interesting, I realize now that my Peterson WPF's gas tank is below the engine. I wonder if that was an experienced-based modification.

I can speak to the last poster's comment about too much oil from experience my father had back in the 1960s. Exxon, then Standard Oil of New Jersey/Humble or Esso, had to pay for repairs to one of our cars where one of their service stations overfilled the oil while changing it.  Big mess & it damaged the aluminum engine in our 1960 something olds.

And you wondered why the gas stations stopped changing oil & doing mechanical repairs for the most part....

[Ianab]

With a modern EFI engine you have an actual fuel pump etc, so fuel can be drawn from the lower fuel tank easy enough. My little mill has an "old school" pull start Briggs with the carb, and the integrated tank mounted on top of the engine, lawnmower style, not the remote tank that the larger mill engine use.

It must only be a slow leak as it hadn't drained the tank, even after several months sitting. So chances are the engine would have fired up. But the sump drained out about 3 litres, when it should hold ~1 litre of oil. And what was coming out didn't look or smell like engine oil.

I found my team listened much better to a teammate talking in everyday terms they understood than me as their OIC or supervisor.

That's basically my reason for posting the "near miss". This style of engine (and the problem) isn't specific to my mill, lots of other small mills (and other machines) could have the same issue. Checking the oil level is what alerted me to the problem, as opposed to just topping up the gas and firing it up. Then having it self destruct 5 mins later.

[Kbeitz]

Engines that fill the block with fuel when the tank is below the engine is caused by a bad
diagram in the mechanical fuel pump. The fuel will leak from the pump into the block as
it pumps fuel.