Skidder comparisons for a newbie in the northeast

[General007]

New to the forum but have been checking out posts for a while now trying to do my research before I decide on a skidder to buy.  So here's what I plan on doing with the skidder: 
1. I'm located in southern Vermont so the terrain is tight and steep so this has eliminated most larger skidders right out of the gate for me.  
2. I own a excavation company and a sugarhouse on 100 acres of land and am looking for just a small skidder to skid firewood with and clear the occasional building lot.  
3. Id like something user friendly and that doesnt have a screaming Detroit in it. 
Right now available in my area are a ton of the john deere 440 series and a few Cats, I'm looking to spend under 15k right now as I cant justify spending a ton on something that will be sitting most of the year as a "toy".
So I guess my question comes down to from what limited knowledge I have with skidders is:  Between a Deere and a Cat which is better?  I'm looking at mostly 440a and b series a few c series also a couple 540's and for the Cats a 518 and a 508.  I like the Cat just because I own Cat excavators but it seems like the Deeres are a bit more plentiful in the area and might be easier to find used parts for.
I know this is a broad question but this is where I'm at and have searched a ton for more information on the two and havent really found any comparisons on the older cats and deeres.  Thanks everyone  

[Skeans1]

I'll bite, how long are the turns? If they aren't that long with that type of terrain lends itself more towards a track skidder then a wheel skidder. Something a D4H TSK or a 517 both were available with an arch and winch only.

[General007]

I dont think a track skidder will fall in my price range of 15k or less thanks

[Ed_K]

 Take a ride up to Nash equipment in colebrook N.H. they'll have a number of kinds of skidder's you can get on an try out. To bad you don't like the detroits.

[General007]

Its not that I dont like detroits its the fact that I have 2 of them on my crushers that by the end of the week I'm sick of listening to them run so I thought I'd shoot for something maybe a little quieter haha if that makes any sense 

[loggerman1959]

Timberjack 230 , JD 440 , both good machines for small operations . Nash in NH is a good place to look

[General007]

Thanks theres a ton of the Deeres around I'm going to look at a 440a today comes with a bunch of spare parts.  Is there anything to really look for on these machines besides the common cracks in the frame over the front axle and from reading on here there's a switch or something on the transmission that can be problematic. 

[Dieseldog5.9]

There is a nice looking 440 for sale in Bennington VT, the guy listing the machine is from NY, name is Jon if memory serves me right, he has a number of skidders for sale he is a broker for skidders, seems like a straight up character over the phone.

Unfortunately you may have to give on one of your items, Detroit engines are in most skidders under 15k, Deere skidders under 15k have been worked hard and need major repair. Transmissions can be pricy to repair, and Deere has a corner on there own parts.

Nash equipment has a lot of options, super premium price, the problem is they have their own special way of repairing things.

A Timberjack with a cummins would be a gem if you could find one, probably going to be more than 15k.

[Puffergas]

I would go with a TJ with a screaming Detroit. A few things to help with the song a Detroit makes: turbo, aluminum valve cover on silicone and fine tooth timing gears.

[General007]

Whats the difference in the Deere 440a vs the 440b?  Is there actually any

[BargeMonkey]

Couldn't pay me to take a 440, A or B. C isn't bad, D is the nicest of the 4 but they all sucks as far as stability. 3315/ 3325 can be a nightmare, once they are set right you leave them alone, I've spend days under a tarp wrenching on a 3325, I've got all the books for both Cs and Ds if you needed info. If you really wanted a nice machine I know where a mint tree farmer is, Detroit but Andy Swinton says he hasn't seen a cleaner one in a long time, guy would part with it for the right money, it's on 18.4x26. I've been to Nash, your on your own with that stuff, some isn't thrashed but most is, sin hider and make them look pretty. 
 Theres a 518 for sale out by cherry valley, I believe Don has it, they where a rugged machine. I see that guy on CL selling skidders, some look good, that 640D in Albany isn't bad but it needs 10-15k thrown at it, further ahead to buy a go to the woods machine. 

[Jack Lilley]

The 440C is a great skidder, I owned one for several years, dependable, start real good in the winter, easy to work on and get around the woods with. 

[Southside]

If you could find a smaller Tree Farmer or a Franklin, they are well built machines.  Everyone gets scared because Franklin went out of business - but they are a component built machine, I have two with Cummins engines, Clark transmissions, Eaton axles, the hydraulics are all standard stuff, so the parts can be found quite easily.  

[General007]

Ive got my eye on a couple tree farmers and franklins they look like decent rigs.  I'd really like a 440c as they seem to be much more modernized and the cab looks more refined with more space but I'm not sure my budget will allow it seeing most people selling them are looking for over 20k and for something i'm not going to work with everyday its kinda hard to justify even tho id be better off in the long run im sure.

[Dieseldog5.9]

A buddy of mine bought a 440c for 27k, then spent 10k to fix a transmission leak.  

[celliott]

Find a Clark with a Cummins engine and call it a day. Don't worry about winch issues, Clark winches are awesome. Transmissions are pretty bulletproof, rugged axles and planetaries. There's a reason other manufacturers used Clark components. 
Heck even a Detroit powered one isn't bad with a good muffler.
You see the 664's pop up reasonably priced pretty often.
Many parts can be had from Pete's equipment in Morrisville, used to be a Clark dealer.
My 666c came from down Rutland way.

[Grandpa]

Whats the difference in the Deere 440a vs the 440b?  Is there actually any

Not an expert here, but, as far as I know, the difference between an A and a B was the B had better wheels and a turbocharger.

[snowstorm]

Whats the difference in the Deere 440a vs the 440b?  Is there actually any

the big thing was the axles gone were the cast steel hubs. so different wheels. turbo blade was improved. winch.  winch driveline .frame was a bit stronger. cage was screened in on the sides. and a few other things i have missed

[General007]

I found a 73 Cat 518 that seems to be in good shape from talking to the owner and by pictures, but whats the major things to look for in one of these skidders when I go look at it in person.  Obviously running, winch working, center pins and driving are key things to see and try out but are there any specific things to be on the lookout for? thanks

[Skeans1]

A big thing is can you get parts? With something that old I don't care if it's Cat or Deere make sure parts are available.

[78NHTFY]

General007--same as you, have acreage, work alone & do part time logging in hilly NH, used to only use tractor/winch.  Last year got a 440B, '70's vintage.  Perfect for me: it's quiet & most everything works and no leaks;  have pulled up to 5 full-length hard wood trees (bush top limbed) at a time on my straight skid road sections (gotta drop them at just the right angle to the skid road, they don't bend good around bumper trees).  Pulled about 30 cord last year, sold 20, bucked up the rest for my wood stove (yup, by hand to keep in shape ).  I checked Nash (see Bargemonkey's comment), Michael Sharp in Bristol NH (good shop, almost got a Cat 518, but too big for me), finally got my 440B from a local kid who was upgrading.  I try to only log with the skidder when ground is frozen, or when it's very dry--a 10 ton machine can really mess my woods when it's wet out and I don't have the time to clean up after myself....good luck with your search.  All the best, Rob.

 

[BargeMonkey]

 I've got nothing but good things to say about Sharps, wouldnt hesitate to buy something from Mike. Nice little gun shop down the road from him also 😂 

[General007]

Thanks for the suggestions.  Im going to look at a 440b and a cat 518 this weekend.  I run Cat excavators so that's mostly my draw to the Cat the 440's seem to almost be the ideal machine for a small firewood operation/sugar lot management/small scale logging. Hopefully I'll have a better idea after looking this weekend.  Having an under 15k price range also limits the machine pool a bit.   

[Southside]

FWIW I had a 440 and sold / traded it for my Franklin 170 with a grapple and winch for your budget price.  Fixed a few leaks on it, nothing major, and it is a great machine.  There are deals out there, just have to find it.  There is no comparison between the two machines and no way I would ever trade back.  The Drag Queen is a big machine, but honestly, not too big to get around if you are careful and with the wider tires she does not tear the ground up any worse than the 440 did.  

[BargeMonkey]

 Everyone has in their mind that a "small" skidder does such a nicer job, its 90% operator. My 460 is 10'4" wide and I can do stuff that 440D cant attempt and still not beat everything to death. A 518 vs a 440 all boils down to condition, 518 is ALOT more stable machine. I've never had my 440 all the way over but I've had 3 wheels in the air and the cab resting on a tree, the A-B series where even worse. 3315-3325 winch's should be made into boat anchors, find something with a 4000/ 6000 winch and you will be alot happier.