Future logger...

[The-Burl-Hunter]

hey,
Ok just wanted to say that I could not wait to be a member on the forestry forum, anyway my question is I am 16 going on 17 and am an active firewood cutter, wanting to have a future in logging as my profession. and a question to anybody who may or may not be a logger is what are the requirements that are involved such as what age do you have to be, and what kind of gear does a person need before he can become a logger. I also have 1 more question which involves chainsaws, I am a big stihl fan owning 2 myself ( ms 250 with a 16" bar and a ms290 with a 18" bar ) and was looking into buying a bigger 1 that can handle a bigger bar than just 20" such as a 660 or a 880, or any other model which may be in the professional range or mid use range which would be a step up from my ms290 but am not sure what is a better buy for the money. thanks a lot for answering my questions. The-Burl-Hunter

[chevytaHOE5674]

The jump from a 290 to a 880 or 660 is large. You will not want to lug an 880 into the woods, even a 660 gets heavy. Depending on what your cutting a 460 or older 440 will do the job and be easier on the body.

In your area is there much hand cutting of timber? Many areas have gone to mechanized harvesting as it is more efficient. Talk to potential employers and see what they recommend.

Also the wood markets aren't that great right now, and jobs in the woods are hard to come by (at least in this area and most others I've heard about).

Edit: as far as equiptment that depends on who you work for. Some provide safety gear, some don't.

[The-Burl-Hunter]

yes, Mostly all logging done around here is done by hand. thanks for the Info

[chevytaHOE5674]

What area and what kind of timber?

[The-Burl-Hunter]

south eastern part of minnesota, a lot of Red oak with white oak, poplar, walnut, and some maple and some hickory, but not really any pine, cottonwood, or basswood, but I would say that the biggest is red oak

[ontariologger]

i know in Canada that you need  to take a course to operate a chainsaw, skidder so you can get a card saying that you can work in the logging industry, i dunno if that states are different?. For gear i had to buy mine chainsaw chaps, hard hat( face protection and hear muffs) and boots. But as said before some companys provide it for you For age i guess can be any i started working when i was 15.Cant help you on the saw, i dont know the stihls to well, im a husky guy

[chevytaHOE5674]

With those species I would bet in the future that logging with move towards big equiptment as it is safer and more efficient. Which means that you could possible be looking for a new job in the future as it takes less guys to run a mechanized operation.

IMO I would go to school and get some kind of degree whether its in forestry tech, or forest engineering, or general forestry etc. This way you have the opportunity to work in some of the more administrative stuff if times get worse in the woods (which is a good possibility).

[thompsontimber]

There is certainly a need for young, ambitious, and highly motivated folks entering the logging business.  However, the reason for such a need has a lot to do with the fact that there isn't a lot of incentive for such young folks to enter into the logging business.  Much easier to make a living, and typically receive much better benefits, in another line of work.  When the "wood" is in your blood though, nothing more satisfying than doing what you love.  Sounds like you have a passion for the woods life, so if you are certain the logging side of things is where your heart lies, I'd suggest you follow the advice of chevy and pursue a degree in the field.  Stay in high school and graduate of course, and see if you can't find a job working with a local logger in the afternoons after school, saturdays, and summer vacation.  Work in the woods with an experienced logger, learn to do things the right way and make sure you really do wanna pursue a career in logging.  The points brought up about equipment and effienciency are very important to consider.  What will it take for you to be competitive and earn a decent living in your area.  Might take a lot of capital investment and commitment on your part, and once you are in its not always easy to get out.  I know too many big time loggers right now that are wishing they had never become loggers...they are trapped under equipment payments they can't escape in bad wood markets and flooded equipment markets.  Not trying to be a downer, just want you to recognize the reality of the downside.  Joining here was good step in your journey.  Take every opportunity you can to educate yourself.  Take any logger certification courses offered in your state.  Finish school. If logging is for you, you can certainly make a career of it and I'm sure all here will wish you luck and offer good advice as you pursue that goal. 

[thecfarm]

I think you need the Game Of Logging,GOL,under your belt to be certified.Or in my area ones does.You need it to cut on some else's land,but they show you the safe,correct way to cut.Also how to maintain your saw and make your trails in the woods. It's a great course even for the land owner who only cuts firewood on his land.I think there are 3-4 classes. Good luck.

[snowman]

In all honesty I wouldn't advise any young man to choose logging as a career these days. When I was a kid the loggers in general, the fallers inparticular were the richest guys in town. Those days are gone forever. When I was a kid, loggers got alot of respect, those days too are gone forever. It used to be if you wanted to live in a small mountain town you had two choices, work in the woods or in the sawmill, again, gone forever. We have been invaded by yuppie types with jobs that pay wages that make loggers feel like poor folk. Logging has always been life on the edge but now it's also life on the bottom runge of the ladder. Having said that, if all you want  is to work in the woods with all it's joys and perils, trials and tribulations, welcome to the club. I wouldn't trade my life for anybodys.

[timber tramp]

Well said Snowman, I agree.    TT

[thompsontimber]

Here is an article to help drive home snowman's point...logging now considered the worst job in the nation.  that figures!  Certainly not the career of choice for getting rich and climbing in social status, but that's not everything.

http://www.gazetteonline.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20090126/NEWS/701269962/1006

[wi woodcutter]

Burl-Hunter

                 Maybe look into running heavy equipment. That's what I do, it is better money and benefits then logging. I grew up around logging (my dad owned a logging company) you will be better off in construction. Most likely you will be laid off in the winter so you can still do some part-time logging in the winter. Look into Local 49 they are in Minnesota.

[Woolywolf]

Burl Hunter,

I think it's great that you want to be a logger.  It's a blessing to know what you want to do and to be able to do it.  Predicting the future, however, is difficult.  Although forestry careers are slumping right now, there are some things to be optimistic about.  Biofuels could increase demand for pulpwood.  Carbon sequestration could increase the demand for more extensively managed forests.  Eventually, the housing and contruction market will turn around and the demand for timber will rebound. Things go in cycles.  A lot also depends on the locale.  Moving might be initially required to find a job.   

Also, I'm not sure if you plan to go to college, but now would be a good time to go.  By the time you finish your degree, the forestry world could be on the upswing.  It's sound like you already know a lot about trees, so I bet it wouldn't be to difficult for you.  Just my two cents  ;)  Good luck. 


             

[woodtroll]

A lot of very good advice. Keep studying the woods, (spending time in them working and playing) it is the best way to learn.
Academically pay attention to the math and buisness classes. I won't want to be a mathematician but you need to be able to figure volumes, cost of doing buisness and how much you can make.
Good luck

[The-Burl-Hunter]

thank-you to all who responded it is a lot information that i really needed, thank-you

[Cedarman]

I can remember back in 1983 I was getting ready to buy a WMLT30 manual.  I went into a restaurant I regularly visited and mentioned I was getting a small band mill to saw logs.  A well respected logger said sarcastically, "That's what you need to do".  It wasn't too many years and I was sawing some of his logs.  He now sells me logs.

In about 1989 or 90 I got to sawing lots of cedar on my LT30.  People laughed at me for sawing such small logs.  In fact at that time most landowners were happy for you to come log their cedar to get rid of it.  We persevered and in 92 built a building and expanded.  People kept shaking their heads and others tried to do the same thing and some even said they could start their own mill and put me out of business.  I am still here and they are not.

4 years ago we started a cedar mulching operation in Ok where they said it wouldn't work.  We are doing quite well and even expanding in this time of economic turmoil.

Burl Hunter, my point is that you are in charge of your destiny.  Just by asking questions here on the forum you are taking the initiative to ask questions and learn all you can.  Trees are growing faster than they are being cut down.  Loggers are leaving the business because of this economic turmoil.  In a few years those that are in position will be in demand.  As was mentioned our woodlands are being broken up into smaller plots.  Small plots aren't the best for mechanized logging.  This is where the small professional can excel.

Do not be discouraged by what you hear, but take that information to heart and learn from it.  Doing it the old way may not work, so figure out a new way.  Biofuels may play a big part of our energy future and they may not.  It will take a lot of ingenuity to be good at using low value wood and still leave the woods in productive shape.

Read all you can, listen all you can, network with others, get to know the best in the business.  Work for peanuts if you have to get the education that is there.

Good luck.

[timber tramp]

  Burl-Hunter, why do you want to be a logger? Not, definately not, saying you should'nt, just curious. Oh, what part of the country are you in? I think requirements vary from state to state.      TT

[chevytaHOE5674]

As was mentioned our woodlands are being broken up into smaller plots.  Small plots aren't the best for mechanized logging.  This is where the small professional can excel.

We are running a tracked feller buncher on parcels as small as 5 acres. Having a hand cutter makes the insurance jump drastically, so everything is cut by machine. Its just a sign of the times IMO.

[thompsontimber]

We too run mechanized harvesting crews on small parcels.  It does drastically decrease insurance costs (that will still seem way too high), and it increases your ability to be diverse in what type of job you can compete for and handle appropriately.  A small lineup of quality used equipment that is relatively inexpensive (especially in trying times like these with many loggers getting out or wanting out) can allow you to tackle a 5 acres job, or even a 50 acre or 150 acre job. I have found that in my area, the small loggers who are mechanized but only have to move 10 to 20 loads per week are the ones making money and doing well.  The big production loggers struggle just to make payments and have to worry over tightening markets crippling their ability to move enough loads to break even. 

[missouri_logger]

burl hunter you do what you want my father owned a logging business my whole childhood then he quit cause a flood came through and hurt us but wen i got to be 18 me and him started slowly logging again with a winch truck and a tractor and a 1 ton and now i am 23 and we have the nicest semi and serco 8000 loader in the area and 2 nice skidders and all the bells and whistles so it can happen if you want it too and if its in your blood but dont get me wrong theres times where your starving for money but itll all work out in the end if its meant to be good luck and be safe and listen to these guys on here theyll give ya good advice they did me thanks all ;D

[Woolywolf]

Here's a good poem, Burl Hunter. I look at it everyonce and a while myself.  It doesn't have anything to do specifically with logging, but a lot to do about life.  Maybe it could be a help to you or someone else, so I'll post it.  It's author, Rudyard Kipling, was quite a nature lover and outdoorsman himself. 

If you can keep your head when all about you
Are losing theirs and blaming it on you,
If you can trust yourself when all men doubt you,
But make allowance for their doubting too;

If you can wait and not be tired by waiting,
Or being lied about, don't deal in lies,
Or being hated, don't give way to hating,
And yet don't look too good, nor talk too wise:

If you can dream - and not make dreams your master;
If you can think - and not make thoughts your aim;
If you can meet with Triumph and Disaster
And treat those two impostors just the same;

If you can bear to hear the truth you've spoken
Twisted by knaves to make a trap for fools,
Or watch the things you gave your life to broken,
And stoop and build 'em up with wornout tools:

If you can make one heap of all your winnings
And risk it on one turn of pitch-and-toss,
And lose, and start again at your beginnings
And never breathe a word about your loss;

If you can force your heart and nerve and sinew
To serve your turn long after they are gone,
And so hold on when there is nothing in you
Except the Will which says to them: 'Hold on!'

If you can talk with crowds and keep your virtue,
Or walk with kings - nor lose the common touch,
If neither foes nor loving friends can hurt you,
If all men count with you, but none too much;

If you can fill the unforgiving minute
With sixty seconds' worth of distance run -
Yours is the Earth and everything that's in it,
And - which is more - you'll be a Man my son!
 

[Cedarman]

Of course I am blinded by what goes on in my area of southern Indiana.  Almost all timber is cut with chainsaw.  There are just a couple of mechanised harvestors in our area and they wouldn't think of moving to a small tract of timber.  Also in Indiana unless they changed the insurance rules, a person running a mechanised machine paid the same rate as a chain saw operator.  I have a cut to length machine for cedar and they would give me no break on insurance.  But it sure makes sense in areas that have a lot of machines to log as much as possible mechanically.  In Mo, a lot of cedar is cut to 4' lengths and carried out on the back and thrown into the pickup.  There are areas of the country that have not changed from 50 years ago.

My point still stands that you should look for areas that you can work in that others are not.  You might have to move.

[liamjordan]

hey,
Ok just wanted to say that I could not wait to be a member on the forestry forum, anyway my question is I am 16 going on 17 and am an active firewood cutter, wanting to have a future in logging as my profession. and a question to anybody who may or may not be a logger is what are the requirements that are involved such as what age do you have to be, and what kind of gear does a person need before he can become a logger. I also have 1 more question which involves chainsaws, I am a big stihl fan owning 2 myself ( ms 250 with a 16" bar and a ms290 with a 18" bar ) and was looking into buying a bigger 1 that can handle a bigger bar than just 20" such as a 660 or a 880, or any other model which may be in the professional range or mid use range which would be a step up from my ms290 but am not sure what is a better buy for the money. thanks a lot for answering my questions. The-Burl-Hunter

Hey Burl Hunter!

I am also 16 (17 in april), i would also like to go into logging, but its a lot harder for me as im from the UK and there is not a great deal of logging around, yeah theres a little bit not loads though.

I am studying Foresty at college, so i will get some qualifications through that and then hopefully one day become self employed.

Over here you have to do chainsaw liesnces and other stupid stuff like that :/ i've done my chainsaw lisence, soo it ent to bad, got a nice new stihl ms361 :D

Well good luck at getting into logging!
Liam Jordan

[beenthere]

Liam
You looked a bit older than that in the vid's... : :

[liamjordan]

Liam
You looked a bit older than that in the vid's... : :

hahaha thats my granddad :P