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beware of "free" gifts

Started by spencerhenry, March 27, 2009, 08:27:39 PM

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spencerhenry

i live 21 miles out of town, nearest paved road is about 7 miles away, elevation 8600' until a few years ago i had to plow 3.5 miles of county road to get home. needless to say living out here is not for people who cant take care of themselves. i have a neighbor who moved here about 5 years ago, he and his wife are NOT the kind of people who should try to live here. i have been the one keeping the road open during the winter for the last 8 years with a skidder with a blade on it. in the 5 years since they have been here, in addition to keeping the road opne, i have plowed their driveway for free at least 25 or 30 times. i have taken out at least 40 dead trees from around their house again for free. i have helped them try to figure out a plow truck.
about a month ago he asks me if i need a new computer (he is a computer nerd). i tell him that my computer is fine, but old. he says he has one for me that is a trade in, totally redone and ready to go, a much better unit than mine. i say ok, he is a computer guy and should know about these things. within 2 days of him setting it up for me, i unplug it and put my old one back to use. but before he leaves, he is eyeballing a trailer ball mount telling me he needs one for his toyota four runner, so he can pull his toy tractor out when it gets stuck. i dont part with it, because i too need it. then he asks me if i could mill up a couple of timbers for him so he can build an "elevated garden" for his wife. at this point i am already thinking i should have refused the "gift". a couple of days ago he leaves a message asking about timbers. so today while plowing snow he shows up at my place and wants to talk timbers. he wants me to mill for him enough timbers, probably 6x6, to build a 3' tall 15' x 20' elevated garden. all the while the implication is that i OWE him and will do this for free. i tell him that that is alot of material, by his description i am thinking at least 1000 bdft. i am not in a good mood before he shows up, i had gotten my truck stuck WITH the chains on, bent my snowplow trying to pull it out, and smashed a couple of fingers in the door latch of the machine, and its not even noon yet. so i tell him that if he brings me the logs i will "cut him a deal". he asks if i can go pick up the logs? so now i am thinking "great, i can spend a half day going to pickup small, crooked muddy logs that will yield nothing, then waste several blades milling crappy dirty logs that wont mill enough material to build a dog house. how do i get out of this?" i tell him that retail value on 1000 bdft is about $600. after quite some time explaining to him that it takes a pretty good sized aspen to make a 16' 6x6, he says well "how about 4" x4,"? now i am thinking that a bad situation just got worse, now i am looking at a long day to mill enough 4x4 to stack 3' high at his dimensions. "they dont have to be perfect" he says, as i think to myself "great alot of wane, and he will be back to have me mill some more because the other ones werent good enough. i tell him that i dont have a way to haul them here (not exactly true), that he needs to bring them to me. he says he will drag them over. not to be rude i say, "but i WILL NOT mill logs that have been dragged down a dirt road for a mile."  eventually he left, and i continued plowing snow. but i know myself, i am sucker. i will probably do it all for free, and by the time it is all done i will be supplying the logs, and delivering the timbers. and as many times as i have told myself before i will probably again be suckered by strangers bearing gifts.

ToddC

You just made me feel better, I thought I was the only one who got suckered into things. ;D

CLL

Reminds me of a guy I used to know. I trained horses for 30 years and hauled his horses around dozens of times, for free.
My trailer broke down(bad wheel bearing) so I ask him if I could use his once, after a bunch of humming and haaing he finally let me. Two weeks later he called and ask me if I could haul his horse from Kentucky to Louisiana, I told him I wasn't going that way any time soon, he said well you borrowed my trailer. I to did the stupid thing and hauled it. When I got back he said I want to pay you, and gave me $ 50. Needless to say I accept no more favors.
Too much work-not enough pay.

LeeB

Either one of you fellows want to come visit the Ozarks in north central Arkansas? I got a drive way needs fixing. You can "borow " my backhoe to do it with. :D.

I don't usually get suckered into these kind of things. I don't have to. My wife volunteers me for them.
'98 LT40HDD/Lombardini, Case 580L, Cat D4C, JD 3032 tractor, JD 5410 tractor, Husky 346, 372 and 562XP's. Stihl MS180 and MS361, 1998 and 2006 3/4 Ton 5.9 Cummins 4x4's, 1989 Dodge D100 w/ 318, and a 1966 Chevy C60 w/ dump bed.

John Bartley

As I've said more times than most who know me care to remember ....... one of the shortest words in the English language seems also to be one of the hardest to learn to say:::

" No. "

cheers

John ..... (who learned to say it very soon after becoming self-employed....)
Kioti DK35HSE w/loader & forks
Champion 25hp band mill, 20' bed
Stihl MS361
Stihl 026

Robert Long

Hey John;

I too can't say 'no' even slowly!
My neighbour had to go out of the area to work because of a plant closing so he asked me to cut his lawn and move the snow from his drive for the year that was 5 years ago and I still keep mowing the lawn and moving the snow usually for the odd $100.00 or bottle of boose at Christmas.  Every time we talk about this he tells me he will retire this year but he still is away working and for how long??? :'(

Robert

clif

My favorite is " Sorry it just won't work out for me"    I do not try to explain and if they have the audacity to ask why, I just smile at them and walk away.  Unfortunately I do not think of it always first, but if I do it works.  Clif
Mighty Myte Mark IV Band Saw Mill .  " Don't let the past hold you back"

Ron Wenrich

So, when do you think you'll be helping him install that elevated garden?   :D  Tell him he needs to help tail on the mill.  That will curb the enthusiasm. 
Never under estimate the power of stupid people in large groups.

bandmiller2

City people think a sawmill creates lumber not just cuts it.Would be a fine world if everyone would clean up their own little pile of poop.Their are two kinds of people those that do and those that prey on them.Frank C.
A man armed with common sense is packing a big piece

Quinn

Clif - I like your response, I'll have to try to remember that one.  When I'm in an urban area and approached by a panhandler looking for spare change, I always smile and reply "No, but thank you for asking".  That seems to shut them down, and I don't feel rude.

Ron - I like your "tailing" idea.  A day of tailing work in exchange for half a day of timber cutting (and he tails for his timbers too).  He might learn something.

- Marty
Logmaster LM4 - 51 hp CAT, 2" blade, fully hydraulic, computer setworks, cutting length of 26'.

Cedarman

 A few years ago a company calls up to do a survey of what magazines I read.  I mentioned 3 or 4 and they asked if I would like to get them for free.  I said I would like to get for free.  As the conversation rolls along she says there will be a shipping and handling charge to be paid first.  I said, "Lady, you said they were free".  She said" They are free, no one objects to paying these charges to get them to you". (Charges were fairly high).  I kept on about free means I pay nothing.  She kept saying they were free.  We went round and round and I had great fun.  Finally, I closed it off by telling her that I was not paying anything at any time for free stuff.  I finally wore her out and that ended that phone call.

Free is free, no strings attached.  Ever.  

We sometimes do things we know we shouldn't because we are afraid we won't be liked.  People like to be liked.
I am in the pink when sawing cedar.

medic

Cedarman
   That reminds me of a call I got several years ago from a telemarketer hawking life insurance.  Their big selling point was there was no charge for the first 90 days.  She finally hit me with the line "it's free, why don't you want to try it"?  I reminded her that it was life insurance and in order to try it I had to die.  There was dead silence on the other end of the phone for about 30 seconds then she hung up without another word.  :)
It was a good day.
Retired Paramedic, TimberKing 1400, Logrite cant hooks, old MacCullough chain saws.  Too many projects not enough hours in the day.

LeeB

Dat dere be funny.  :D  :D
'98 LT40HDD/Lombardini, Case 580L, Cat D4C, JD 3032 tractor, JD 5410 tractor, Husky 346, 372 and 562XP's. Stihl MS180 and MS361, 1998 and 2006 3/4 Ton 5.9 Cummins 4x4's, 1989 Dodge D100 w/ 318, and a 1966 Chevy C60 w/ dump bed.

Ironwood

Yeah, you gotta draw the line somewhere. I am, or should I say, have been, the local go to guy for the nieghbors plowing and blah, blah. Finally the gal next doors husband dies (They are perched on a steep slope, I would go to GREAT lengths for him, anything, anything), she starts getting "yappy" as I am grading my drive where ours meet (on my property mind you) and she starts in "you think you own this place" I was addressing her runoff washing out my drive and was mindful of her property and etc.... finally I say, very repectfully " are you sure you want to go there" she keeps on yapping, I ask her again" are you sure you want to go there" Her drive is STEEP, very steep. and much like a bobsled run in winter. I have NEVER graded, plowed, slagged or salted her drive again, I even did it to my own risk before I had a really good tactor w/ brakes ::). No more, her kids (older than me, said "yeah she is getting abit out of hand") told me that I shouldn't expet an apology (which it is all it would take), I thought for sure this year she would crash her SUV, it was really iced up for weeks. She could even use another egress thru my property (we surround her on three sides), but it has been convienently blocked by my stumps, trailer, and now 100,000 lbs of precast concrete blocks ::) Sorry, your yap gotcha in trouble.

            Ironwood
There is no scarcity of opportunity to make a living at what you love to do, there is only scarcity of resolve to make it happen.- Wayne Dyer

sawmilllawyer

Ironwood, seems like she went there. Sometimes women folk just don't know when to shut it down. It took me a while but I have learned to just say "No" not harsh like but just a firm No, not interested. If they persist then they are usually talking to the wind or if on the phone the dial tone.
Stihl MS-361, MS-460 mag, Poulan 2150, 2375 Wildthing.

Cedarman

Most women are taught to say no early on.  Most of them got the hang of it real well.
I am in the pink when sawing cedar.

bandmiller2

There is a code of right and wrong and how we treat each outher most men understand ,only the best of the women do.Frank C.
A man armed with common sense is packing a big piece

shinnlinger

Being a good neighbor goes both ways.

I too have been asked to mill from time to time from neighbors implying they would like a break.  To sound neighborly I say sure....IF the neighbor provides, delivered, usable trees, buys the blades/sharpening , provides the fuel and pulls the slabs and stacks the wood back on his truck.  I tell them I am too busy and don't have the necessary insurance(which is true) to haul their logs with my equipment.

Funny, I have offered that to several but have only milled for one(who was the kind of guy who offered to pay me on top of all that)

I suggest you "forget" to plow the neighbors drive next winter as well.

Shinnlinger
Woodshop teacher, pasture raised chicken farmer
34 horse kubota L-2850, Turner Band Mill, '84 F-600,
living in self-built/milled timberframe home

logwalker

Quote from: bandmiller2 on March 29, 2009, 07:23:40 AM
There is a code of right and wrong and how we treat each outher most men understand ,only the best of the women do.Frank C.

I couldn't disagree more. That is pretty DanG near sexist. In my part of the world both are equal when it comes to taking advantage of the neighbor.
Let's all be careful out there tomorrow. Lt40hd, 22' Kenworth Flatbed rollback dump, MM45B Mitsubishi trackhoe, Clark5000lb Forklift, Kubota L2850 tractor

spencerhenry

i have been pulling alot of logs in the last couple of days with low temps and fresh snow. on the way to the landing, i can see their house. this morning i looked over and saw him watching me skid 12 full length trees. next thing i know he will be asking me to cut and skid his logs over to my mill.

Meadows Miller

Gday
Quote from: bandmiller2 on March 28, 2009, 06:59:33 AM
City people think a sawmill creates lumber not just cuts it.Would be a fine world if everyone would clean up their own little pile of poop.Their are two kinds of people those that do and those that prey on them.Frank C.

Frank Id be in the first Group Mate  ;) :D :D But im alot better now at Spotting Them now  ;) :D ;D than i was when i was younger  ;) ;D but somtimes i get verry Peeved whith ppl thinking its Easy to turn logs into timber and Mates thinking they should get it for free  ;) If its their logs i say an hourly rate strait off the mark and if its timber ill just tell them the m3 rate Now that gets any Idea they have in their head that they are getting it for free outa their mind quicksmart   ;) And they all know now that i dont mind a barter but it has to have a $$$$$ figure on each side  so we know where things sit with eachover  ;) ;D 8)
Quote from: Ironwood on March 28, 2009, 08:45:14 PM

Yeah, you gotta draw the line somewhere. I am, or should I say, have been, the local go to guy for the nieghbors plowing and blah, blah. Finally the gal next doors husband dies (They are perched on a steep slope, I would go to GREAT lengths for him, anything, anything), she starts getting "yappy" as I am grading my drive where ours meet (on my property mind you) and she starts in "you think you own this place" I was addressing her runoff washing out my drive and was mindful of her property and etc.... finally I say, very repectfully " are you sure you want to go there" she keeps on yapping, I ask her again" are you sure you want to go there" Her drive is STEEP, very steep. and much like a bobsled run in winter. I have NEVER graded, plowed, slagged or salted her drive again, I even did it to my own risk before I had a really good tactor w/ brakes ::). No more, her kids (older than me, said "yeah she is getting abit out of hand") told me that I shouldn't expet an apology (which it is all it would take), I thought for sure this year she would crash her SUV, it was really iced up for weeks. She could even use another egress thru my property (we surround her on three sides), but it has been convienently blocked by my stumps, trailer, and now 100,000 lbs of precast concrete blocks ::) Sorry, your yap gotcha in trouble.

            Ironwood
Quote from: bandmiller2 on March 29, 2009, 07:23:40 AM
There is a code of right and wrong and how we treat each outher most men understand ,only the best of the women do.Frank C.

:D :D :D :D :D :D ;) Too Right Fellas some ppls Mouths are in Gear before the Brain Kicks in and some ppls brains dont even engauge sometimes (both genders) ;) :D :D :D :D :D ;) thats when you just say keep talking or just walk off on em  that usually gets a responce ;) :D :D :D ;D ;)

Reguards Chris
4TH Generation Timbergetter

Ironwood

Yeah, That was a year and a half ago, she may still be down there talking to herself ;).

Ironwood
There is no scarcity of opportunity to make a living at what you love to do, there is only scarcity of resolve to make it happen.- Wayne Dyer

iffy

And here I thought I was the only one who can't say no. Some years back I was had a small hay business and was always looking for hay to put up on shares. A friend called me and asked if I had an accumulator for my baler. Told him I did. He said he had a buyer that wanted the hay in small bales in accumulator piles on the field. Wanted to know if I could bale it for him. Told him I was just getting ready to put another field down if it didn't rain but I could get to him next week. He said "Oh, it's already down, I swathed it a couple of days ago". I said I would rearrange my schedule. It rained that night. Couple of days later I turned it and got it dry enough to bale. Told him to tell his guy to come get it. He said the guy didn't want it now that it was rained on, he was going to have to store it. Wanted to know if I had a bale fork for my loader. Told him I did. He asked if I could pick up his when I picked up mine. Told him I guessed I could. He said "Uh, you wouldn't happen to have a trailer, would you? I haven't used mine for years and the beds are rotten and the tires are flat." I said, yeh, we can use my trailers. He said "I've got a barn you can put them in, and it's empty. I asked if my tractor would go inside, and he said no, we've got to put them in the hayloft. I asked how he proposed to do that and he said he would hire some hay help. I said "obviously you haven't tried to hire any hay help lately".
At the time I was renting another barn from him close to the field. He asked if I could just put it in that barn. Told him I supposed I could. Got all the hay in the barn (by myself), and about a month later sold my share for $40/T. It had been rained on, so wouldn't bring more. He asked me some time later if I had any buyers needing his hay. I asked him what he wanted for it and he said $60. Told him it wouldn't bring that. He told me I sold too cheap. I said maybe, but I've got the money in my pocket. In late winter I had a buyer contact me and I showed him the hay. He offered $35. I called Gary and asked him if he would take $35. He said no, he'd need to have $55. That was in 1990. The hay is still there.
My wife was listening to my end of the conversation during all this, and just walked away shaking her head.

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