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Woodmizer LT35HD inconsistent thickness end to end

Started by bhraymer, October 08, 2018, 08:22:13 PM

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bhraymer

I've properly aligned all bunk/bed heights on my Woodmizer LT35HD several times ensuring the blade is the exact same height from each bunk at the far left, middle, and far right of the blade. 99% of my milling is live-edge slabs and the mill cuts just fine on all but 1 slab from every log. Starting on a log, say I cut 4 slabs and then rotate 180deg and finish slabbing the log. The very last slab (on the bottom) that is against the bunks will always be 1/4-3/4" thicker on the front end opposed to the back end. And when I slab longer logs that touch all 4 main bunks, after flipping the log 180deg to finish it there's always 2 bunks that the cant sits flush against and 2 that it sits 1/4" above.

This happens with every log, green/dry/hard/soft. Woodmizer tells me it's potentially stress in the log which I don't buy since it's every single log I slab and almost always the exact same results. They also said make sure your outriggers are secure (which they are). This has been happening since I got the mill brand new and I currently have 110hrs on it. Thought I'd seek some experienced wisdom on here before contacting Woodmizer again...any guidance is very much appreciated.

Magicman

Actually you answered your own question.  You verified that the blade was the exact same distance from each bed rail (bunk) left and right as well as end to end.  The bed height does not change nor does the blade height change as you are sawing.

That leaves; the sawmill is not properly supported by the outriggers, the log is not properly supported by all of the bed rails all of the way from end to end of the log all of the time, or log stress is dealing you misery as slabs are removed.  There is no reason to doubt what Wood-Mizer told you about stress.
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

SawyerTed

Have you set the mill up level on a hard surface ensuring all outriggers are carrying a portion of the mill weight?  If not then you should and check alignment of the blade to the bunks. 

My mill has similar hours and has not required adjustments to the bunks. The majority of errors has been related to outrigger deployment or operator error (toe boards deployed improperly.
Woodmizer LT50, WM BMS 250, WM BMT 250, Kubota MX5100, IH McCormick Farmall 140, Husqvarna 372XP, Husqvarna 455 Rancher

Southside

I have to look it up in my book to get the exact answer but your band is not supposed to be the same height on the drive side as on the idle side, IIRC it is supposed to be 1/16" higher on the idle side as that side of the head is drawn down into the lumber when sawing.  

As SawyerTed and Magicman said improper weight distribution on your out riggers will cause exactly what you describe.  If you are sawing on soft ground it's very likely that the surface has compacted and your outriggers are not supporting the same weight as they were when you first set them down.  

It can be frustrating to have these things happening with a new mill, but the 35 is a work horse and once you really understand it will work wonders for you.  

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Crossroads

I carry a dozen or so 3/4"x6x6 pieces of plywood to try to even out the outriggers.  my mill has some preload and I have to put a little extra pressure on both ends to take the arch out. With the head all the way to the front/hitch end, I look down the top rail to see if it's flat or arched. 
With the right fulcrum and enough leverage, you can move the world!

2017 LT40 wide, BMS250 and BMT250,036 stihl, 2001 Dodge 3500 5.9 Cummins, l8000 Ford dump truck, hr16 Terex excavator, Valley je 2x24 edger, Gehl ctl65 skid steer, JD350c dozer

terrifictimbersllc

DJ Hoover, Terrific Timbers LLC,  Mystic CT Woodmizer Million Board Foot Club member. 2019 LT70 Super Wide 55 Yanmar,  LogRite fetching arch, WM BMS250 sharpener/BMT250 setter.  2001 F350 7.3L PSD 6 spd manual ZF 4x4 Crew Cab Long Bed

ladylake

 
 The easy way to check if its stress or mill setup is to put a long 1" board on the mill and take about 1/4" off the top edge, then turn it over and take another 1/4" off.  It will have no stress and should measure the same from one end to the other, if its the same your mill is set up fine and your just having trouble with stressed logs. Steve
Timberking B20  18000  hours +  Case75xt grapple + forks+8" snow bucket + dirt bucket   770 Oliver   Lots(too many) of chainsaws, Like the Echo saws and the Stihl and Husky     W5  Case loader   1  trailers  Wright sharpener     Suffolk  setter Volvo MCT125c skid loader

Poweredward

I had the same issue on a new LT35HD as well, turned out I was putting to much weight on the 4 outside outriggers.  I now just drop them and shim them, my woodmizer rep told me they are just so the mill doesn't tip over they should not hold any weight.   This solved that problem for me .
2016 Woodmizer LT35HD, 2015 CASE Farmall 75C, FARMA T8-C63D, 1989 CASE IH 685 FARMI JL501

MS261,  MS462C,  MS881 Granberg 60" AlaskanMill

Peter Drouin

Your cutting to close to the pith before you turn the thing.
A&P saw Mill LLC.
45' of Wood Mizer, cutting since 1987.
License NH softwood grader.

millwright

I had the same problem with my lt35, it was hard to get frame level when I had a large log on.  I replaced the jacks with fao's. It not only solved the problem, but it made a huge improvement on setup time.

Stephen1

Quote from: Peter Drouin on October 09, 2018, 06:16:40 AM
Your cutting to close to the pith before you turn the thing.
Try turning when you get to the height of the back stops. 
I only lift each end of the mill to a height where the inboard legs click into place.
Make sure the ends of the log/slabs are over a support. 
IDRY Vacum Kiln, LT40HDWide, BMS250 sharpener/setter 742b Bobcat, TCM forklift, Sthil 026,038, 461. 1952 TEA Fergusan Tractor

Magicman

Yes Southside logger, 1/16" higher on the idle side but I assumed that surely he had gotten that from his Operator's Manual detailing adjustments and alignments.  "End to end" is the OP's problem and it is a "setup" problem, not a sawmill problem.

As a note, there is no indication that this was done but: no one should ever, ever, chase problems by adjusting the bed rail heights.
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

Deere80

I also went thru this with my 35 hydraulic when I got it, and it came down to that I did not have enough pressure on the two end outriggers.  I thought I had a lot on them but had to dang near have the tires off the ground.
Wood-Mizer LT40WIDE 38HP

SawyerTed

bhraymer, don't be discouraged, you can see many of us will admit we have had the same problem.  I use a variety of blocking under my outriggers so I can get proper weight on them without settling.  Some 3/4 plywood, some 4/4 and 8/8 oak boards and some 4x6 all go with me on mobile jobs.  I have had to reset the mill after a large log gets loaded.

Woodmizer LT50, WM BMS 250, WM BMT 250, Kubota MX5100, IH McCormick Farmall 140, Husqvarna 372XP, Husqvarna 455 Rancher

Deere80

Is it a bad thing if the tires are not in contact with the ground? 
Wood-Mizer LT40WIDE 38HP

terrifictimbersllc

Not specifically with regards to getting the mill bed straight for purposes of sawing lumber the same thickness at each end that's being discussed here. Idea is to transfer most of the weight to the jack supports which are firm whereas the springs are not. Tires off the ground would not hinder setting the mill up straight.  But if the tires are off the ground there is another problem, your mill becomes narrower and more tippy which matters under certain conditions such as if rolling a big log from one side to the other or maybe while having the head up high on the masts.  So if a tire is off the ground put  boards under it so that the mill is supported with the extra width that the tires afford,  should rolling a big log on it or having the head way up would want to make it tip.

ps. also review what is said about setting up the mill in the manual.  I think pressure off the springs is mentioned in mine.  Also I know with mine if I don't have the jacks high enough to let some pressure off the springs, the feed motor will rub the tire and cause some problem in cutting 1" boards.
DJ Hoover, Terrific Timbers LLC,  Mystic CT Woodmizer Million Board Foot Club member. 2019 LT70 Super Wide 55 Yanmar,  LogRite fetching arch, WM BMS250 sharpener/BMT250 setter.  2001 F350 7.3L PSD 6 spd manual ZF 4x4 Crew Cab Long Bed

Lawg Dawg

They told me when I picked my mill up...you will probably never, ever have to adjust the bed rails...ever!  :D so I don't even look at them!  :D
2018  LT 40 Wide 999cc, 2019 t595 Bobcat track loader,
John Deere 4000, 2016 F150, Husky 268, 394xp, Shindiawa 591, 2 Railroad jacks, and a comealong. Woodmaster Planer, and a Skilsaw, bunch of Phillips head screwdrivers, and a pair of pliers!

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terrifictimbersllc

I've done the full alignment procedure on my Lt40 almost yearly for 12 years now.  Checking bed rail adjustments is part of this.  I don't think I've ever adjusted a bed rail more than 1/16 and usually only 1/32 , if at all, in that time. 

That's sawing usually 100-150MBF yearly with a lot of thumping of big logs and big cants on those bed rails. 
DJ Hoover, Terrific Timbers LLC,  Mystic CT Woodmizer Million Board Foot Club member. 2019 LT70 Super Wide 55 Yanmar,  LogRite fetching arch, WM BMS250 sharpener/BMT250 setter.  2001 F350 7.3L PSD 6 spd manual ZF 4x4 Crew Cab Long Bed

OffGrid973

Make a quick video on iPhone cutting your last straight slab then the one when issues start.  We can critique that much easier and avoid guessing.

Call in a favor if needed from a techy friend if taking the video and posting to youtube is too difficult.
Your Fellow Woodworker,
- Off Grid

terrifictimbersllc

Quote from: ladylake on October 09, 2018, 05:30:24 AM

The easy way to check if its stress or mill setup is to put a long 1" board on the mill and take about 1/4" off the top edge, then turn it over and take another 1/4" off.  It will have no stress and should measure the same from one end to the other, if its the same your mill is set up fine and your just having trouble with stressed logs. Steve
Steve do you mean stand the board on edge like you were edging it?
DJ Hoover, Terrific Timbers LLC,  Mystic CT Woodmizer Million Board Foot Club member. 2019 LT70 Super Wide 55 Yanmar,  LogRite fetching arch, WM BMS250 sharpener/BMT250 setter.  2001 F350 7.3L PSD 6 spd manual ZF 4x4 Crew Cab Long Bed

ladylake


 Yes like edging a board, taking off only 1/4" or so there will be no stress to deal with.  If the board is wide on the ends you need more pressure on the center jacks , if its wider in the middle more pressure  on the end jacks. Steve
Timberking B20  18000  hours +  Case75xt grapple + forks+8" snow bucket + dirt bucket   770 Oliver   Lots(too many) of chainsaws, Like the Echo saws and the Stihl and Husky     W5  Case loader   1  trailers  Wright sharpener     Suffolk  setter Volvo MCT125c skid loader

slider

Ladylake and i got into a fuss years ago about this very same thing. He is a Timber king fan and i am woodmizer . WDH so graciously explained to me that some mills are more particular about set up than others . They all will work when you get them right. Instead of apologizing to Steve i just send him a pm around February when its 50 degrees here in Ga and - 40 in Mn . 

For having a mill with 12,000 hrs and still working every day my hat's off to Steve.
al glenn

terrifictimbersllc

Quote from: ladylake on October 09, 2018, 04:22:15 PM

Yes like edging a board, taking off only 1/4" or so there will be no stress to deal with.  If the board is wide on the ends you need more pressure on the center jacks , if its wider in the middle more pressure  on the end jacks. Steve
Thanks, I agree this is an excellent way to calibrate what is going on in real time during a sawing day, better and easier than making a thin cut on a cant.  Hadn't thought of it before. 
DJ Hoover, Terrific Timbers LLC,  Mystic CT Woodmizer Million Board Foot Club member. 2019 LT70 Super Wide 55 Yanmar,  LogRite fetching arch, WM BMS250 sharpener/BMT250 setter.  2001 F350 7.3L PSD 6 spd manual ZF 4x4 Crew Cab Long Bed

ladylake

Quote from: slider on October 09, 2018, 05:33:07 PM
Ladylake and i got into a fuss years ago about this very same thing. He is a Timber king fan and i am woodmizer . WDH so graciously explained to me that some mills are more particular about set up than others . They all will work when you get them right. Instead of apologizing to Steve i just send him a pm around February when its 50 degrees here in Ga and - 40 in Mn .

For having a mill with 12,000 hrs and still working every day my hat's off to Steve.



Al  
 Seems like all mills have to be supported right, none are immune from the frame bending a little without the jacks adjusted right.  When I get fussy sawing long beams etc the method I use is fast and easy.

 It's over 14000 hours now and I mill too much but get some loafing in also.
 
 It's  45 degrees now here , I'll take the cold any day plus I only work down to 0,    -5 if I really have too

                                                                             Steve
Timberking B20  18000  hours +  Case75xt grapple + forks+8" snow bucket + dirt bucket   770 Oliver   Lots(too many) of chainsaws, Like the Echo saws and the Stihl and Husky     W5  Case loader   1  trailers  Wright sharpener     Suffolk  setter Volvo MCT125c skid loader

Peter Drouin

I must be lucky, 3 Wood Mizers I have had over the years. I never had a setup problem. I use to put wooden blocks under the legs and cut, I always put most of the weight on the end legs.
I think it is how your sawing. Good luck.   
A&P saw Mill LLC.
45' of Wood Mizer, cutting since 1987.
License NH softwood grader.

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