Sawing Big Logs

[YellowHammer]

I don't have a wide head mill but saw a lot of over sized logs.  I thought I'd post a few pics and a description of how I shoehorn them in.  Some of these techniques are high risk, but effective, and may fall into the "Don't try these at home" category, but I am pretty comfortable with them.  Some of these techniques I've learned from more experienced sawyers.    Anyway, enough of a disclaimer.   

Here's an over max width log last week where I had to drop the backstops to the bed and almost rub the paint off the mast to get the head to clear.  The power anywhere electrical cable mod I did on the mill allows me to use all the hydros while the head is temporarily positioned mid bed so I can use the mast as a safety backstop while positioning and repositioning the log while Bibbying.      

When Bibbying, any time the head and blade guides can clear the edge of the log or butt swell, take a cut or full width board.  If the opportunity is missed, then the next roll of the log may put it in position where it's too wide to make a cut and the log must be rotated all the way around again, not fun.  

I will run with my blades guides adjusted in an inch or so smaller than max width as a safety and if I start to run out of room I may have just enough travel to make it through the cut.  That's the easy solution.

If it won't make it, and there is no more travel, and the band is stuck in the log, it can get real bad, real fast.  Then it's generally time to try the "nudge" a highly effective but risky technique where the clamp is repositioned and used to engage the very bottom of the log so it won't roll, and slide it purely sideways on the bed, either toward the mast or away to clear the offending obstruction, without putting any load on the band and binding or damaging the head. 10 seconds nudging can replace 10 minutes of hacking with a hatchet or chainsaw to get the head to clear.  

If that doesn't work, then it's time to back the band out of the log, which is done best with the band engaged and walking the mill head backward, by grabbing the mill and pulling it by hand, basically back feeding like on a manual mill.  Since I have a long dragback arm, I use that as a pull handle, and I can stay safely behind the head, several feet away, and walk backward, pulling the head out just like on my old manual feed LT15.  Do not get anywhere near or in the path of the the running band when backing by hand.  Just don't do it.  Backing out with the band running allows it to clear out the sawdust generated in the original forward cut, and it will move easily if back fed slowly and evenly.  If the power feed controls are used to back the band out using the reverse function, it will move the head too fast and will dismount the band.  

Wedges and hammers can be used if I don't want to back out with the band running, but it's slow.  A cut off band will also help clear the dust out of the kerf. 

I also leave the loader arms up for the ones that try to roll away, off the mill. Been there done that and it's part of the fun.

The second picture is what happens when the claw turner has a big log flop on it, while in the slightly up position.  Oops.  Not the first time this has happened.  I use both the claw turner and two plane in tandem to position these big logs.  The claw works best when slightly up the side of the logs, so that it never looses tangential contact on the log.  With the bigger logs, the claw doesn't have enough power to engage and roll from the under bed fully retracted position.  It will just stall.  So although a rope or other technique can be used to reposition the claw, I prefer to leave it engaged in the log so I don't have to reposition it later.  It does sometimes cause a little problem.  Nothing that a hammer doesn't fix.

If the claw ever does get under the log and stall, make sure the claw is dug into the underside of the log like a set of cleats, and use the two plane clamp to roll the log a few small degrees, and the claw will follow as it's stuck in the bark.  Then retry the claw to attempt to turn the log without backing it out of position, and if it stalls again then load the claw hydraulics and use the two plane to rotate the log with the claw stuck in it again and repeat until the claw is on the side of the log and has enough side leverage where it can turn the log.  Then never drop the claw lower than that point when further rolling the log, until the log gets smaller and lighter.  





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Here's another pic of some decent sized ones. I get a lot of my big high grade logs from the local mega mills because they won't saw anything over 30" with their circle mills. 



I split these with a chainsaw to get them to fit.  

It may seem obvious, but some of these maneuvers are high risk and can cause some real damage to the mill.  I do them enough, pretty much every day, that I'm very comfortable with them.  

[DR Buck]

I've done big logs like that enough to know how to do it.   That said,  I go out of my way to avoid doing it  whenever I can.

My largest was close to 42" and it took an hour to get the first real good board off the mill.     

[moodnacreek]

Big logs can be a lot of work and not much footage for the time spent. If the tree was very old there could and often is treasures inside and too deep for the metal detector. It would be nice to have something other than a chainsaw to quarter all of them and metal detect again.  My idea was an up and down sawmill with insert teeth because you will be sawing metal.

[woodworker9]

Half the logs I get seem to be much bigger than my LT40 can handle.  I am giving serious thought right now to building my own slabbing band mill, but I have to work out all the logistics for it first.  I am not going to give up hydraulic turning, log clamps, etc.....so I've got some serious considerations to learn about first.  

With the market on wide slabs being on fire right now, I often wonder how long it will stay this way.  The way I got it figured, 3 weeks after I build a wide mill, and buy a vacuum kiln, everyone will want skinny furniture again.

[YellowHammer]

These techniques are not that fastest, buts its pretty much the same as what I have to do to gun barrel a log I'm quarter sawing (8 faces), so whether I do it on a big log or a small log, I'd rather do it on a big log.  I'm not a production sawyer, but more for high grade.  The log on the mill is a white oak and yielded maybe 50-100 bdft of nice flat sawn side lumber while Bibbying, and about 250 bdft of very high grade, wide, quarter sawn wood.  So maybe 350 bdft total.  Doyle estimated the yield should have been higher, so I did lose some yield and production speed, both because of the oversize log and that I quarter sawed it.  However, this technique is a lot faster than ripping with a chainsaw.  

Big logs aren't for everybody, with lowered production speeds, but here's why I do it: I should gross a little north of $2,100 for the wide quarter sawn and flat sawn wood from this one log alone.  I paid less than 50 cents per bdft for this oversize log because as they get too big for the mega mills, the price per bdft actually comes down, while usually on the bigger logs, the quality goes up.  I won't waste the time on big ugly logs, but I will load up any big clean ones, especially red and white oak.  "Load the trailer, boys, I'll take it."  I came home yesterday with only two logs filling the trailer, but was a full load, one big white oak, and huge cherry.  Our prices increase as the width of the QS board exceeds certain breakpoints, and a 12" wide or wider QS board will sell for a $1 per bdft higher than a narrow one.  All reasons to mill up the big ones for us.

Also, since nobody else want to touch the big ones, or can't or won't mill them, I have a source of very high grade logs with virtually no competition.  

I've got one oak log right now, waiting in the wings, 5'4" diameter, 1,450 bdft Doyle, waiting to be sawn.  

[longtime lurker]

The outsize boys are why I have a Lucas, and expect to have one (or similar) for as long as I'm playing this game. They're a cost effective breakdown saw for stuff most won't touch, and while I'm not a portable sawmiller I've been known to take it onsite when the logs are that big or when it's not cost effective to bring in machinery that can handle them.

We do well on the big logs, although it can be a lot of work. Thing being that mostly I won't saw a whole log with it: I use it to break a log into manageable pieces for the bench, or I'll use it to run a few slabs off two faces before splitting with a chainsaw... Depends on the log.

As with most things, experience gives us the confidence to tackle the unusual and make it look easy.

[terrifictimbersllc]

Sounds like you have done some big logs YH.   8) 8) 8)

I like...
-Use masts as backstop

-Nudge a log over 1/2" manually if you can, it's surprising easy if the stops/clamp are a bit loose

-Back out the band running usually results in disaster for me.  Since I charge hourly, sometimes its best to cut the band and get out in 3 minutes rather than 30 minutes.  But haven't tried pushing it out by hand with band running

-Don't pass an opportunity to make a cut, however shallow.

-Don't let the log get the best of you, keep your cool

-If others are watching/waiting tell them it takes a while to get going with a big log.   Tell yourself this too, it helps.  Don't have helpers rushing around trying to help, that doesn't help.   Tell them to go get some coffee.

-Zip your jacket all the way up before using chain saw to cut a notch for the guide arm, and

-Go to the bathroom before starting a big log

I have a Peterson too but its not the answer if I'm on a bandsawing job

I'm thinking WIDE would help

Of all the things I've learned about sawing in the last 18 yrs I'd put learning to stay out of trouble on big logs at the top of the list.

[kelLOGg]

I'd offer Yellowhammer some advice but I think I will exit the stage instead. 
WOW!
Bob

[terrifictimbersllc]

Quartered this 36 x 9' maple this morning.  Customer wants wide QS.  I didn't want to put it on the mill and butcher it down to where I could make a deep QS cut.

I've never cut a log in half horizontally like YH and Customsawyer have posted.  I have 41" and 59" bars for MS880.  I wouldn't want to try horizontal sawing with the 59" bar.  So I tried horizontal cutting with 41" bar. But I called that off after about 2" in.  Wasn't confident that I could be accurate, and the cutting of this frozen log at almost right angle was hopelessly grabby.

SO..... I put on the 59" bar and did what I usually do, cut in from each end with vertical cuts.  It worked well, the two halves just rolled apart.  Then I put on the 41" bar and cut the halves into quarters. Was very pleased with the cuts.  


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It helped a lot that my friend set this log up on 10" poles for me.  

I'll QS these quarters and two 26-28" logs behind them, with the customer, on Saturday.

[Magicman]

Too big logs are what I love to hate sawing.    :-\  If it's much over 40" I can plan to spend upward toward 3 hours on a single log sawing 1" and including the edging.  Sawing them is like eating an elephant....one bite at the time.  ;D

[Brad_bb]

YH, Once you have bibby'd the log, assuming you are RRQS'ing it, is your only way to split it by using the chainsaw?  If you bibby it down so the half log fits on your mill, are you losing the possible width of the quarter sawn board.  For example, if the log would produce a 14 or 16 inch wide board but you can only get a 24.5 log half on the mill (your throat opening), are you then limited to a 12 inch wide board?  Or do you quarter the log so you can get wider boards?

I'm considering how I'm going to do it in the future.  I've got my LT15 right now which as you know has a 24.5 throat opening between the guides.  The only way to half a log is with my chainsaw mill, which isn't all that fun to do.  But it would be nice to get 2 pair of quartersawn boards from that middle cut.  The Chainsaw mill is too crude to do that.  So the halves could be cut in half again to make quarters, but I'm afraid I will lose a board or two per quarter that way potentially?  It's definitely better to RRQS a half log.  

Now later this year I plan on selling my LT15 because I want to go to an electric motor.  I could step up to an LT15wide?  That might help?  As you know I can't to go to a hydraulic mill because I need a 2 rail mill to run my beam planer.  

[Resonator]

What about shorter lengths of logs, (Is there a minimum market length for hardwood lumber?) I've cut down some relatively large Sugar Maples in the past, however, the trunk was only "big" until it forked out into multiple leaders. Also I would think by cutting shorter lengths it would keep the weight down enough so the tractor could lift it.

[jmouton]

the wide head is awesome  alot more room ,    34 in is great havent sawd any big ones yet  because it is cold out and are too busy sawing costomers logs ,  we have some big ones laying around cant wait to get some big slabs off of them ,,       make sure you get all the bark off the trailer yellowhammer. ha


                                                                                         jim

[bandmiller2]

My home built band mill can cut 30", I refuse to put anything larger on the mill. Other than a high testostrone challenge it just doesn't pay, time per board foot. Frank C.

[WDH]

I am swearing off the ones that are too big. 

[Magicman]

Too big??  Theys nevah too big 'cept dose dat are too big!!  

[Larry]

Load the log on the big mill.  Split down the center.



Split it again into quarters and send to the little mill (LT-70).



Sell 20" wide quarter sawn white oak.

A day at departed member Kansas's (RIP) mill.

[Don P]

We've also used the Alaskan or the slabbing bar on the Lucas to split or make a cant then send it on to another saw.

[terrifictimbersllc]

What I said below.

[terrifictimbersllc]

I am swearing off the ones that are too big.

Goes better with no swearing.

[YellowHammer]

YH, Once you have bibby'd the log, assuming you are RRQS'ing it, is your only way to split it by using the chainsaw?  If you bibby it down so the half log fits on your mill, are you losing the possible width of the quarter sawn board.  For example, if the log would produce a 14 or 16 inch wide board but you can only get a 24.5 log half on the mill (your throat opening), are you then limited to a 12 inch wide board?  Or do you quarter the log so you can get wider boards?

Once it's on the mill, I'll finish it on the mill, so for mill split logs such as this, yes, the max width is dictated largely by the blade guide clearance, so I will take a hit on QS wood width and get a mix of flatsawn from the same log.  So with a marginally large log, one in the gray zone of big enough to handle with the mill, but not worth chainsawing, I will use the mill.

However, with some real nice, real big logs, where I want to really maximize the yield of QS wood, a chainsaw split half log is my go to, and then the halves can be set diagonally on the mill, with one edge of the half log rubbing the mill mast, or the other edge pretty much rubbing the bandwheel cover and then it's feasable, but not easy, to cut widerQS boards using these same lowered backstop free style clamping techniques.  If it's a really valuable and big log, I'll split and quarter it with the chainsaw and then I can get near throat capacity QS wood.  These would be near 50 inch class and bigger logs.

For the big logs, it's not unusual to stall out the sawmill loader arms, with them being too heavy to lift.  So I will use my front end loader to ease under the log and give it a boost, along with the loader arms, very carefully.    

The key to splitting logs with a chainsaw is to make sure the chainsaw slopes diagonally down through the center of the log, from your hip position when standing upright, with the power head being pushed by your hip and the bar tip just clearing the ground on the other side. All the dogging force is being applied by your hip, not your arms, which basically just steers the saw.  

I've never turned a big log down, if it was a good one.  

There may be a wide in my near future, also.

[Crossroads]

Yes the wide makes logs in the 36" class a breeze

[Dave Shepard]

I like sawing them when they are too big in both directions.  ;D 

45"x47'

  

[Crossroads]

Now that's a piece of wood mr. Shepard! 

[WDH]

Not possible to saw too big logs without swearing ;D.