Nyle/Ebac,WM? What to do?

[SawDust_Studios]

I'm getting ready to jump in and finally make my first kiln purchase.  I've decided to go with dehumidification unit, but which?  I thought about going solar, but I already have a good location for a dehumidication unit. I'd even love to suck the wood dry with a vacuum unit, but it's not feasibe at this time.

So, for those that own the various units. Pros?  Cons?

Thanks

Dave

[karl]

I have a Nyle 150 unit that I bought second hand but it had never been out of the crate, had a problem with it that may have been either from the PO monkeying with it or Friday 5 PM manufacturing, or me installing or Knomes- anyway the company was exceptional in fixing the problem and getting me up and running. They treated me as if I had just purchased a dozen of their top of the line kilns.
Even years later when I have called for parts to upgrade the sales folks have taken time to discuss my meager operation and offer info.
Great Folks, excellent service.

I believe WM is a Nyle unit, don't know anything about Ebac.

If you search the site there have been discussions about various DH kilns.

[oakiemac]

I own a Ebac. So far so good, no problems that I know of yet. I bought the Ebac over the nyle because it was less expensive and they would ship it for free. I am on a very tight budget or I probably would of went with Nyle because their compressors are bigger and drying time is less.

[Ga_Boy]

Dave,

About three months ago when I started costing out my startup costs I had planned to by a 3Mbf DH unit.  I had settled on the Nyle for varisous technical reasons.

Since then, I have attended a drying course; I learned that a convential unit heating a charge to 160 using standard schedules can dry a green charge in about 3 three weeks.

The costs for a DH and convential setup are very close if you already have a heat source.  I noted that you are in PA, so the chances are pertty good that you use an outdoor wood furance for heat.  If this is so you have a heat source for a kiln.

If you do not have an outdoor wood furance then you need to add about $10K to the price of a convential kiln; please note that this amount includes hooking up my house, workshop and kiln to the outdoor furance.

For me, fuel is free, I'll burn slabs and other by products from processing logs to lumber.

This is just my two cents worth; you will need to cruch the numbers, do a little research and see what works best for your operation.




Mark

[SawDust_Studios]

Thanks for the advice.  I still have alot to learn when it comes to drying.  :(   Is an alternative heat source necessary for these units?  

I don't have an outdoor wood furnace. Our shop 24x44 2 story with a 14 x 44 addition is heated with radiant water floor heat, by propane.  The shop is extremely well insulated.  Not free heat, but works for us.  I had planned on placing the kiln under the addition that was added.  This would allow me to easily add additional radiant heat under the kiln slab.  

The other question I have is that if you buy a 3000 bdft unit, is it always necessary to fully load it?  I'm sure it's more economical too, but does it degrade if you don't?

Thanks
Dave

[Ga_Boy]

Dave,

With a convential kiln you need to heat the interior to around 110-120 F for the start of the cycle, then you increase the temperture by 10-15 F as the dictated by the schedule until you reach the max temperture.

Now during this drying cycle you are venting heated moist air out of the kiln while drawing in cold dry air.  In a convential kiln hot water or steam is used to heat the interior.  I do not think your floor heat will be enough.  If you consider the out door wood furance you can use it to heat the water for your floor system.  

With a DH unit, you are condensing the moisture within the kiln then sending the liquid to a drain.

Having either setup inside an esisting building poses multipule challanges that you will need to solve.

1.  Mositure
     Venting moist air or draing a liquid

2.  Loading / Unloading
     Confined space

3.  Noise from the fans (24/7 operation)
     You never shut down the kiln with a charge in it

4.  Adequate air flow for fans  
     During vent/recovery the intake fan need adequate air volume to pull from.

If you have not already done so go to Woodweb and pull down a copy of Drying Hardwood Lumber it is a PDF.  

Also, if you are sersous about this, attending or sending someone to a drying short course is a good investment.

Don is better qualified to respond to the questions on DH units efficeincies.




Mark

[WH_Conley]

    I am leary of too much under one roof, all eggs in one basket so to speak. One spark or electrical short you are out of business. I am putting everything seperate due to fire hazard. This has it's downside, just something to think about.

[SawDust_Studios]

I'll see if I can post pictures of the structure in a bit.

It is open on all sides, but the top is already enclosed.   I thought these units included internal heat?  Are they not sufficient?  What other heat sources to people use?

Again, thanks for all the answers and feeback everyone has provided.

Dave

[dewwood]

Dave,
For a startup operation I would recommend a dehumidification unit.  Nyle has a very good unit, I have an Ebac that I bought used but would probably go with Nyle if purchasing new.  Yes they do have their own heat source built in and even though I have an outdoor furnace I do not have it hooked up to my drying chamber.  The DH units are very economical to operate as they do not exhaust all of that heated air to the outside, it is retained and the water is expelled via drainage.  For most of the year very little supplemental heat is required because the heat from the fan motors and compressor provide enough to operate the kiln(assumming adequate insulation).  In cold weather sometimes some additional heat is required but not a lot.  In hot weather I need to vent the unit to keep it from getting too hot.

One other big plus is that DH units are more forgiving than conventional steam kilns.  I am not saying they do not need managing but they do not need it to the extent of conventional kilns.

Hope this gives you some additional insight.

Dewey

[SawDust_Studios]

Ok, after reading all of the above and several previous posts,  I just realized that we are basically talking about two different types of kilns. DH vs Conventional  Duh!! :

I think I still want to go with a DH kiln as I would be the easiest for me to set-up.  So, my plan was to put this under our current lean-to structure and pour a concrete floor.  That was my question regarding additional radiant heat in the concrete. I think this would help with not needing to run the unit hard intially, because the radiant heat keeps the concrete very even and once up to temperature, is fairly easy to maintain.  So, back to the original question?  Is this a good method?  Seems like many are leaning toward nyle.  Is it really worth the additional $500?  

Thanks Again

Dazed and apparently confused

Dave

[Brad_S.]

I'm not sure you need to put in radiant heat floor, just an insulated one.

As far as brands, WM is a Nyle, so it comes down to a choice between 2 brands. I learned the hard way in the wood business that you get what you pay for and there are good reasons the Nyle cost a little more.  

[Don_Lewis]

Radiant floors in kilns are not such a good idea. One problem-what temperature water? The house or shop is easy, always about the same, but in the kiln, the temperature rises as the wood dries and an 80 degree floor will actually be cooling the kiln. Also it is very difficult to get sufficient heat energy into a floor for a kiln. Remember, radiant floor heat works in most places because, through good insulation, heat losses are minimized so the amount of heat you need is minimized. You can't reduce the amount of heat required to dry wood so the logic that favors radiant floors in shops, homes and offices doesn't apply to kilns.

[Don_Lewis]

By the way, I like to stay out of discussions like these where someone is trying to decide which DH unit to buy. I think everyone knows where I stand and I think this type of forum is a place to find out what regular people think. I think it isn't good when we start pushing a product or system or approach that we make in this kind of place. Hence I answered about the radiant floor but not which DH unit to buy.

[SawDust_Studios]

Hmm.  Never thought of the radiant heat cooling the kiln.

Doesn't the concrete in a kiln eventually have to get up to temperature or it alone would be a source for heat loss, even when insulated.  My thinking was that by adding the additional heat, the klin wouldn't require as much intial heat as it normally would. Then again, my thinking isn't always the best  ;)

Seems like everyone so far is for the nyle, but haven't heard any real arguments against the ebac.  I have a friend that is on his second ebay which is why I first thought of going that route. His first lasted over 10 years before he had problems.  Perhaps the nyle's last longer.

Thanks again.

[karl]

It is true that not a lot of supplimental heat is needed- I have used a kerosene space heater to bring the pack up to temp in really cold weather, but it requires opening the vents to get combustion air and a malfunction of the heater could ruin the load with soot. In moderate weather the heater in the Dh unit is adequate in the insulated truck box I use. I use the outdoor boiler mainly because I had it anyway.
My "Dream Kiln" would be pretty much what I have except for being able to load with a forklift and not having a kiln cart.
If it had a concrete slab I would be very sure to insulate under it and the edges and it would have as little mass as was structually sound. Also it would be insulated with a closed cell blown polyurethane insulation.

Constructing the kiln in my shop would only happen if I KNEW that I would NEVER want to expand the shop ;)

Good luck

[Brad_S.]

Saw Dust,

Forum rules wisely   prohibit dissing any brand, hence no negative feedback on why you shouldn't buy the Ebac.

[shopteacher]

Does anybody have a life expectancy for any of the DH units?
Say for arguments sake, running a 45 day cycle or 8 loads per year. Any data on that?

[Fred]

I have the Ebac LD3000 it works great. But I need to rebuild the chamber..A storm hit it.
    Fred