Franklin 132 Forwarder Hydraulic Issue

Corley5 · May 22, 2016, 10:53:27 AM

This has been on going for a while. I'm not sure how long because I don't run it everyday, it may sit for a week or more. I don't remember when it first started but it started in the last month I guess ;D

When first starting the machine the blade and steering were slow to pick up but not every time. Almost like the pump had lost its prime but after not very long all was fine. The hydraulics were strong. The blade would pick up the front of the machine and the steering would turn it with a full load of wood. Yesterday started the same way. It took a couple minutes to get working but then was absolutely fine. I pulled three buggy loads, went home for a long lunch and the honey do list and went back late in the afternoon. I couldn't get it to do anything. No response at all even after running for a while. There's plenty of hydraulic fluid in it. The functions were never jerky. They either worked good or they didn't. Now they don't work at all. I've had pumps fail before but usually it's a gradual thing and they get weak. This was strong and worked fine once it was working. The pump is mounted to the accessory drives on the back of the 3-53 Detroit and supplies the two way valve for the blade and the orbital steering motor. The loader has its own pump driven from the transmission and works fine. I pulled the side covers and floor boards last night and traced lines and figured out how the thing works but it'd been a long day and the mosquitoes were getting the best of me. I'm going back in a bit to check the pump supply line and see if it may be collapsing :-\ I suppose the filters and pick up screens in the tank are next. It doesn't act like it's a supply issue. There's just no flow. Like maybe a broken shaft or something in the pump :-\ Maybe a drive key that would catch sometimes and slip others and is now gone? Any ideas ???

;D ??? 8)

Gary_C · May 22, 2016, 11:54:03 AM

First suspect would be the relief valve in the circuit. I just went thru some strange hydraulic problems on my forwarder that I finally found were caused by a malfunctioning relief valve that I thought was OK and when I finally replaced it, all the problems went away.

Corley5 · May 22, 2016, 01:04:07 PM

I just got back from taking another look and what I thought last night was a junction block appears to be a relief valve. I think it's dumping oil back to tank instead of sending it out to the work. It's not in a pleasant place either ;D

The books I've got don't show the two pump system and they state that not all parts may be illustrated

Corley5 · May 22, 2016, 05:04:51 PM

I pulled the relief valve cartridge, I guess you call it that

, out of the block. It looks fine but can use a new O-ring and backers on the bottom. I'll try that tomorrow.

Corley5 · May 22, 2016, 05:18:08 PM

I finished tracing the circuits too. The hot line from the pump goes to this block with the relief valve. From the block a line goes back to tank and one goes to the steering motor. Four lines go to and come out of the steering motor. One is the hot line, two go to the steering cylinders and one goes to the blade valve. A line from the blade valve goes back to tank and two lines go to the blade cylinders. I don't see a relief valve on the steering motor or blade valve.

Corley5 · May 22, 2016, 05:18:51 PM

I was going to take pictures but my camera is MIA.

kiko · May 22, 2016, 06:32:49 PM

Sounds like a suction issue. Sometimes you can bleed the pressure line to get it to pick up.

Gary_C · May 22, 2016, 07:44:56 PM

The way you describe the setup, you would expect only one relief valve and that is in the steering valve. Also it is plumbed in a priority setup with the steering getting priority flow and what's left, if any goes to the blade.

I doubt the o-rings are the problem. The spool in the relief valve is sticking open or the spring is weak and dumping flow from the pump back to the tank. That's similar to the problem I lived with for four years till I got a new relief valve cartridge and problem solved.

Also my problem came up slowly over a long period of time and not all at once.

RHP Logging · May 22, 2016, 09:12:40 PM

I've got a 132. Pull the pump on the side of the motor to make sure your shaft splines aren't stripped out. I've had that happen to both pumps. The loader pump several times. It will work fine one minute. Nothing the next

Corley5 · May 23, 2016, 07:29:12 AM

I'm going to slip the pump off and take a look at the shaft 8)

Corley5 · May 23, 2016, 02:15:24 PM

I pulled the pump this AM and I'm quite sure the key was gone. I never saw one anyway but it could have dropped into the engine. It does appear from looking at the marks that the shaft was spinning in the drive gears a bit. The pump seal is also blown and I'm quite sure is the reason the engine's been making oil in the crankcase. This may solve more than one issue and save fixing something that wasn't broken ;D

I've got to get a hack saw to get the suction hose off the pump. It's fused to the barbed fitting. Then I'll take the pump, it's a Cessna gear, to the shop and see if it's worth fixing or just get a new pump from Surplus Center. If the gears are good and it only needs seals it shouldn't be bad.

Corley5 · May 23, 2016, 06:34:52 PM

After cleaning the tag it's a Hydreco not a Cessna. I can't match it up to a Surplus Center pump as it's an SAE A mount with a 7/8" keyed shaft. SC doesn't have any A mounts with 7/8" shafts. B mounts yes. Hopefully the internals of this pump are good and a seal will fix it

Corley5 · May 23, 2016, 06:36:59 PM

I'm pretty sure the pump had never been off. I'm also sure judging by the amount of grime that it's never been pressure washed.

RHP Logging · May 23, 2016, 07:29:27 PM

I know a place that can get most anything for pumps. Are you sure it's keyed and not just stripped smooth? Mine is 13 spline 7/8. B mount. Ive got a Cummins tho. You should be able to pull the bearing and female coupler from the gear to switch out. The shaft seals for pumps can be had at Napa or a bearing and seal place. Getting the numbers off helps a lot. Your line might be clogged backing up your oil through the shaft seal. I've had that happen.

RHP Logging · May 23, 2016, 07:32:23 PM

Take the pump apart yourself. They are pretty simple. If your fingernail catches on the outside edge of where the gears ride it's probably shot.

treeslayer2003 · May 23, 2016, 08:06:19 PM

+1 on that. every pump on a skidder i ever saw was splined. i have seen them franklins leak into the engine before.

Corley5 · May 23, 2016, 10:48:04 PM

It's keyed. No doubt ;) ;D

Corley5 · May 25, 2016, 08:16:22 AM

I dropped the pump off at the shop yesterday. Scott is going to look it over today and reseal it if it's worth it. I didn't want to mess with it myself. I've got other aspects of the operation that I can attend to. I'm on my way this morning to pull the pickup screens and filter out of the hydraulic tank for replacement and cleaning. The supply lines to both pumps need replacing. The one for the pump I pulled ruptured when I twisted it around to get the pump out. They're original to the machine which is early 80s.

RHP Logging · May 25, 2016, 07:20:19 PM

Hopefully everything is just wore out on ya. Not that you have an underlying issue.

Corley5 · May 26, 2016, 05:37:09 PM

The pump was junk as I figured it would be but was hoping it wouldn't be. The bushings were spun, the case was chewed etc.

So the issue was it's an SAE A mount with a 7/8 keyed shaft which are obsolete. All 7/8 shaft pumps are B mount in the 21st century. I did find a possible pump that could be assembled on request but that company didn't answer their phone and still haven't responded to an e-mail. Scott thought he could sleeve a 5/8 shaft to work and he probably could. That was plan B and I went on to C. I found a parts list for 53 Series Detroits on PC Industries website and started looking. I found the hydraulic pump coupling drive and pump drives but no pics or descriptions of them. I called them and Allan on the other end was very helpful and knew just what I needed. I've got a new coupling drive and drive gear with a 5/8" 9 spline center on their way from Wyoming. Mine were worn pretty bad and replacing them isn't unnecessary. Now to order a new pump from Surplus Center.
In the meantime I've cleaned the hydraulic tank and got new filters. The filter for the loader was blown out. The tank didn't have much crap in it which is good ;) ;D. I flushed the pick up screens too. Maybe I'll have it running again someday ;D :D

RHP Logging · May 26, 2016, 06:12:19 PM

Sounds like you have it nailed down.

Corley5 · May 27, 2016, 06:32:40 PM

Old pump.

Corley5 · May 27, 2016, 06:38:36 PM

Old filters. I made the decision today to switch to spin on filters. There's enough room with a little creativity ;) ;D I ordered the bases from Surplus Center along with the new pump.

Corley5 · May 27, 2016, 06:41:49 PM

That'll just leave these in the tank.

Today

lopet · May 27, 2016, 09:42:30 PM

I went through three buckets of hydraulic fluid this spring without doing any oil changes. :( Always thinking that's a little much, but after reading your posts I always feel better. ;D
Glad you got the problem solved.