What do I need to thin 6-12" fir with a 26HP tractor?

[spencerwnelson]

Hi, first time posting .

I have about 20 acres of forested land in Western Washington. Mostly Douglas Fir, Western Hemlock, and Red Alder; planted 25 years ago. I think I need to do some thinning. I have a 26HP tractor (Kubota B2620) with a brush hog and a backhoe attachment, a chainsaw, and zero experience. What do I need to do this myself?

The trees I'd be thinning are mostly in the 6"-12" range. The ground is mostly pretty level. There are a few clearings and trails so I could generally be within 100 feet of a clearing/trail at all times.

There's a small sawmill nearby that can take logs if I can get a truck to haul them; I don't know if the small 6" stuff is usable but I am pretty scrappy and will probably use it for outbuilding stuff, like a firewood shed. Anything really nasty, I'll split for firewood.

I have zero experience, but my rough plan was to get some sort of PTO winch to pull limbed trees out to clearings, buck them out there (not sure how I'll lift them off the ground to save my saw - will I be able to lift them by hand?), and then a claw grapple for the tractor to move the bucked logs to a pile.

Is that plan sane? Crazy? Do I need a skidder or an arch or a fancy trailer, or is a winch good enough?

[Weekend_Sawyer]

Welcome to the Forum!

you need an experienced forester to walk your land with you and point out what needs to be taken out and what needs to be encouraged.

I'm sure your tractor will work well enough. A log arch would be a great help.
Logrite, a forum sponsor, sells them see them in the line of sponsors to the left.

Jon

[thecfarm]

That size should do fine. Yes you won't be hauling out a cord at a time. I did a lot with a 3pt winch. They do cost!!! But are worth it. I just pushed the logs up into a pile, no grapple. But a grapple is so much easier. I would put short pieces of wood under the logs to keep them off the ground. Yes, it takes time, but keeps the chain out of the dirt.
Takes time to get logs out too. Most mills wants them fresh. Meaning you can't take 2 months to get a load of logs.

[mike_belben]

 A pto winch is too expensive to bother in a tractor that small in my opinion.  I have same size machine. 


An arch can bring out more log but it cannot deck them up into a neat stack like how yo can with a buttplate and reversing into each pile as you drop them, which is important unless you have a big field to sprawl out in.   And with arch, for any winching you will only have tractor brakes to hold the machine.  A good buttplate digs in and holds the machine in place without any brakes.  An 8k electric winch is what i have and it can reel in to the machine, more wood than a 26hp machine can drag to the landing.  Theres nothing wrong with a bigger winch but i see no point in spending over $600 on the winch unless you just have extra money and like pretty things.  I could buy a dozer or skidder or large tractor for the price of a new pto winch and to me that is more valuable and economical. 


This is a 2wd 50yr old 26hp 2cyl diesel that i got for a grand and made the winch plate with an old 8k electric. Not fast but free and easy.  Just beware that electric winch brakes are only rated at half the line pull so you dont want to skid with one.  I switch the chokers to the buttplate once the log comes in. 










This is one small oak tree cut in half, maybe 18ft sticks.  It could MAYBE drag 2 of the one on the right at a time in good conditions or about 6 of the stick on left. 





On a trailer it can pull a cord of wood at a time easy, so about 30 of those small sticks maybe.. but then u need a way to load/unload. 

[mike_belben]

Itll pull these pretty easy.  5th or 6th gear if ya want to scoot.  


















I have a short skid so i dont bother with big hitches but it could about double this pile and make it in like 3rd.  Front end wouldnt touch down for the entire hill though so its brake steer only.  

[spencerwnelson]

Thanks for the replies.

Jon: Yep, I walked the property with a forester a few weeks ago who pointed out the stands that need thinning, and explained what to look for. That's actually what led me here.

thecfarm: Great, that sounds a lot like what I was thinking of. What sort of 3pt winch did you get? Does the brand and quality make a big difference on those?

mike_belben: Man thanks for all the detail, this is great. I don't know what a butt plate is but I can guess - a hunk of metal that digs in off the 3-point hitch?

How do you power the electric winch? Like a car battery or something?

That trailer looks sweet but how do you get all the logs onto it?

[Bogue Chitto]

 

 This is a old hay lift with logging tongs. Back up to the log and drop the lift and take off.

[thecfarm]

Mike,I think your old tractor is bigger than spencer's. Bigger than my wife's 2005 NH 30hp too.
I have a Norse winch. Igland is the same thing. All the winches do the same thing. I have mine behind a 40 hp tractor, the Norse has a pivoting butt plate and and a higher pulley than other brands, or did have. With your size tractor I don't know what the options are for a Norse. Don't worry about dealer support. Or I have not needed any parts. Just cables. My winch was used hard for 3-4 years. Used it in the woods hauling out big pine. Now it lives a life of ease just doing firewood. Get whatever you have in your area. A 3 pt winch is nice to have. Just like a cab is nice to have too.  ;)  I'm just way to cheap to spend the extra on one. I am not in the cab much anyways. Stepson just bought a Kubota with a cab.   That cab is some pricey.      But so is a 3 pt winch. I would take the winch before the cab.
Whatever you get for a winch, make up some shorts chains, 4 feet ones. Much easier to pull through 2 feet of chain through a keyhole chocker than 6 feet. All those small 3 pt chains are 8 feet long. Won't be hauling out much needing more than one 8 foot chain.
I also cut my stumps down low, And I do mean low. This way I can run over my stumps and not damage the tires on my tractor. I cut any limbs that I leave in the woods about 2 feet long. Or try too. This way I can drive through my brush without a limbs sticking up in the air 3 feet. Some limbs have a curve in them and just the right height for a radiator. All this takes time, but in a few years the brush is on the ground and it's gone.
My land is hard to get around on, so if I leave brush high, seems like I want to drive that way.

[stavebuyer]

3pt winch is the best money you will ever spend. 

[mike_belben]

Maybe Ray.. Not sure.  Its an L260 kubota with 8 speed gear drive trans.. I expected underpowered but not the case at all. Very torquey. 


Spencer-  

The big ones on bottom i let my boy load with the bobcat grapple.  The top half i just sling up there by hand then unload with the forktruck back at the house in one pick. 


To me the buttplate is whatever engages the log.  If it has a rearward angle on bottom itll bite in.  Mine was originally a root rake i built for a garden tractor then adapter to 3pt because it just worked out.  The teeth are great, no brakes needed for winching. I power the winch with stick welder leads and anderson connectors off the tractor battery.  No issues so far but cycle wise it is definitely only for puttering.  I would never suggest electric for all day commercial winching above say 6" diameter thinning.  


Big thing if you make one is keep it as close to the tractor axle as possible.  6" back makes a huge difference.  I would put the winch under my seat if i could.  I built a mechanical brake lockout into my winch drum so i could skid logs while hooked to the cable but the tractor wheelies way worse because the winch is back a bit and has more leverage than hooking the chokers direct to the steel.  Its just C channel with slots cut for the chain, nothing fancy. 

[Southside]

Welcome to the Forum.  Others are addressing your equipment needs / wants, but since you brought up your level of experience a couple of times, and there is nothing wrong with that, we all start one day. My suggestion is that you invest in some safety gear - full wrap chaps, safety shoes, and a helmet, along with some saw and felling training.  There is a lot more to getting wood on the ground than gravity and a chain saw.  If you have areas that need to be thinned then you are going to be facing issues with hanging up trees, directional felling, potential dislodged branches, vines, tops, etc.  

No class will prepare you for everything, but giving you some basic skills and confidence, along with the knowledge of when to say "nope - not gonna do that", will go a long way to making things successful.

One thing you need to address if you use your tractor is protection for the undercarriage from stumps, sticks and rocks as that Kubota will have a lot of rather expensive, and not very protected, components on the under side.  There is a very valid reason skidders have full armor plating on the bottom.  You also need to address protection of the operator from things falling from the sky.  Even relatively small branches will come down with tremendous force and a fiberglass sun screen offers zero actual protection when it comes down to it.  

[Wudman]

One more note about small tractors and loaded trailers.......the matter of what you can pull is not the issue......it is the matter of what you can STOP.  Heavy loads behind you on slope can tend to push you around.  Long material with significant tail overhang on a trailer can make it light on the tongue which translates to light on the rear axle of the tractor.  I almost go myself in trouble one time with this scenario.  I have been known to overload my equipment from time to time.  I had some long poles on a single axle trailer which actually had negative weight on the tongue.  Attempting to stop going down a significant slope pushed the rear of the tractor around as to jacknife.  With the danger of turning the tractor over, I throttled back up and was able to pull the mess back straight.  I ended up getting stopped about 100 feet further down hill than I wanted.  Stay safe and enjoy the Forum.  It's addictive as is this logging / sawing mess.  :D

Wudman  

[mike_belben]

Definitely have to watch the overhang and keep the tongue weight on in all situations.  I could way up the load capacity by hitching trailer to tractor drawbar but chose to usena hitch in the buttplate for the ability to raise and lower the hitch and manipulate the load balance or drag it on the ground in emergency.   Either dump it and let the tongue drag or raise it and let the  overhanging logs drag.


On old manual everything tractors, you dont need the engine to go down hill.  On a long hill with some uh oh factor i suggest picking the gear to go down it that you would use to climb up it before beginning descent.

 On mine the throttle bar is right on the dash and will shut the engine down.  If i really had to come down a long one with the trailer on this machine,once the load has momentum to take over i would shut the fuel bar down to kill engine and let compression braking control the load [it becomes a jake brake] and keep my cutting brakes unlocked for brake steer if anything gets out of hand. The 3pt hitch will still raise and lower so you can dump it if needed [mine will drag into the dirt] and the engine instantly comes back to life as soon as you pull the fuel bar back.  This saves you from locking a wheel [mine apply unevenly] and getting jackknifed or fading out the brakes by riding them.  Skids lead to rollovers.

Disclaimer- Not for hydro machines or power steering.  Just old stuff with mechanical injection.


 Same way you run a semi off the mountain, put the jake on max in a low gear from the top and use the brakes as sparingly as you can to prevent your speed from creeping up.  Coming in too fast is how you set the hub oil on fire.

[Supraman0614]

I just bought a used Farmi winch for the back of my 45HP tractor, just for firewood.  I don't know why I waited so long to get one, but the cost didn't seem to justify the amount of wood I would get. I was wrong.  In about four hours, I pulled out enough logs for a year and a half worth of firewood (I had already felled and limbed them).  That thing is probably one of the best tools I have bought for my tractor.  If you can find a smaller used one that isn't beat up too badly, it would be helpful.  A new Uniforest brand can be had for your size tractor for about $2800.

[thecfarm]

Supraman0614, welcome to the forum, you will like it here.

[kantuckid]

I like "toys" as well as most users do, but...
I fail to see the need for a winch to thin that size and amount of trees? I pull out far larger logs w/o a winch using my 3pt hitch and a choker pulled against a trailer ball on a sturdy pullbar  using a drawbar. I've skidded logs with an old Ford 8N much larger than the OP. 
I suppose if ones is chasing ways to spend money it's out there? 
I built an arch some years ago but found that it was unused so often that I sold it on CL. If I can get a log away from the stump, then I can move it with my 38hp 4x4 tractor. Not like I'm trying to make a living at this so it works for me. The log on my WM mill now is large enough that I had to chainsaw the butt swell to begin to saw it and it came a good ways from up on my ridge via my tractor. 
I did recently buy a set of log tongs to pull the smaller logs I'm harvesting next for my wall logs. I decided to cut from the 59 smaller pines I tallied on my land before I begin buying off of a mill. 
Tongs make great sense for the OP's size logs he's thinning? In my area there are many pine post cutters operating at the lower end of the "logger spectrum". Some use multiple choker setups to pull several smaller pines at once to there loading deck. A 26 hp tractor will pull a bunch of logs that small size unless it's really tough terrain. 

[ChopperDan]

I also have a B2620 that I use for my firewood needs. Some of the adds done to the machine were, manual thumb for the backhoe, forklift headrack with forks and loader quick attach. The forks and quick attach were for a b3030 but fit without modification. Mind you my machine is a 2012 model and uses the older style pin on bucket mount. The newer quick attach wasn't available at the time nor would it work without modifications.I estimate the lift capacity with the forks on at 1000lbs. The forks and thumb add to the functionality In ways i hadn't imagined. Unfortunately I don't have any pics but can get some on Tuesday if need.

Some other nice to have mods were the forward and aft led lights on the rops, replaced the factory light switch with 1 for a b3030 which has an added horn button in center and horn. (I get tired of yelling at people)

Edit year 2012
Dan