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Initial planning stages, many questions

Started by jimdad07, May 26, 2015, 01:40:40 PM

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Dave Shepard

My architect, Jack Sobon, has fourteen different species in his house. Most are hardwood, I believe. I don't think you need to worry too much about mixing and matching. I like framing with pine. Most species will be superior to white pine in shear and bending, but sometimes you get something weird. I'd have to look it up, but I think Doug fir is no stronger than white pine in tension parallel to grain. That is why you see a lot of hardwood splines in Doug fir frames.
Wood-Mizer LT40HDD51-WR Wireless, Kubota L48, Honda Rincon 650, TJ208 G-S, and a 60"LogRite!

jimdad07

Quote from: Dave Shepard on June 01, 2015, 06:09:36 PM
My architect, Jack Sobon, has fourteen different species in his house. Most are hardwood, I believe. I don't think you need to worry too much about mixing and matching. I like framing with pine. Most species will be superior to white pine in shear and bending, but sometimes you get something weird. I'd have to look it up, but I think Doug fir is no stronger than white pine in tension parallel to grain. That is why you see a lot of hardwood splines in Doug fir frames.

Pretty good architect to have.  Pine is pretty well over looked around here as a good building material even though the Amish have been selling a lot of it now that there are Amish sawmills all over the place.  I plan to saw my own, the Amish don't take lumber orders very well.  I would ask them for the heartwood to be boxed and as close to center as possible and I'd be lucky to get half of it in a post.
Hudson HFE 30 Homesteader bandmill w/28' of track
Couple tractors, a bunch of chainsaws and not enough time to use them.

jimdad07

Still going on beam and post sizing, here is what I came up with for the tie beams:

-Widest span to be held up by the tie beams will be 14' from post to post on center, again I am using my center to center measurement as part of my tributary area
-Measuring from the center of the area between bents 1 and 2 to the center of the area between bents 2 and 3 we have 10'
-the area to be supported by the tie beam will be 140 square feet
-dead load (again using 12psf instead of 10psf) 12x140= 1,680#'s
-live load (using 100psf) 100x140= 14,000#'s
-combined load= 15,680#'s
-converting the unsupported length of the beam from 14' to inches gets me 168" span
-plugging the numbers into the beam calculator using Eastern white pine I get a beam of 12"x18" to pass in all three categories, this gives me 0.165" deflection on the beam.

Any concerns on these numbers?  I was going to try to post my plans tonight but I've been working on the house and my "wife says I better or else" list so I haven't had time to put them together properly.  When I put the plans up I would like to be able to have all of my posts and beams drawn to scale, right now I have a set of plans a drew up that does not have the sizing figured yet so it will be a little hard to get some of the exact heights drawn in properly for you guys.  Hopefully when you guys see the plans it makes a little more sense as to what I am doing. 
Hudson HFE 30 Homesteader bandmill w/28' of track
Couple tractors, a bunch of chainsaws and not enough time to use them.

jimdad07

Another question that may affect my calculations: when figuring for dead load on say my tie beams, do I need to figure the weight of the beam as part of the load or just what the beam is carrying? 

Thanks in advance.
Hudson HFE 30 Homesteader bandmill w/28' of track
Couple tractors, a bunch of chainsaws and not enough time to use them.

jimdad07

I had to do some recalculating on my dead loads for the roof and the second floor.  After finding my initial beam sizes that I will need for a conventional 10psf I went through last night and and re figured my dead loads based on purlin weights as well as floor joist weights.

For the roof:
- a linear foot of my purlins green will weigh 10# if I use white pine cut at the original size of 5"x8"
- my roof decking will weigh 3# per linear foot, I was planning to deck the roof with true 1"x12" pine planks.
-this puts my dead load at 13#
-my live load I had figured at 50#, the live load specified for my area is 48#
- I have 1psf that I did not account for in my figuring, I will have to recalculate my purlin sizes to make sure I am still in a safe range.
- my rafters will also have to be re figured with their weight coming in at 21#'s per linear foot.

For the second floor:
- a linear foot of my floor joists will weigh in at 11.25#'s green with my original 5"x9" white pine joists.
- my decking will weigh in at 6#'s green
- my recalculated dead load will be at 17.25psf
- I had figured my live load at a 100psf originally and my dead load at 12psf
- if I wish to stay with the sizing of the joists that I have already figured I will need to drop my live load down to 94psf
- what this will mean for my intended use of the second floor:
- the original intent for the second floor is a wood shop as well as a space for drying green hardwoods.  The heaviest hardwood in my area is hickory which weighs in at 5.3#'s per board foot.  If I were to figure how high of a stack of green hickory I can safely load on the second floor I am looking at close to a stack 18" high.  The odds of me having a bunch of milled up hickory is pretty low.  So I'll figure with say hard maple which weighs in at 4.6#'s per board foot.
The highest stack of hard maple I could safely load on the second floor is 20".
- my options as I see them:
-the plan is to use the eave area for my lumber storage.  The span of the tie beam under the eave area will be roughly 8'.  When I was sizing my tie beam I was sizing it for a 14' span.  I will need to run more numbers but I might be able to beef up my floor in the eave area by moving my floor joist spacing closer together.

I'll look at this option a little closer tonight.
Hudson HFE 30 Homesteader bandmill w/28' of track
Couple tractors, a bunch of chainsaws and not enough time to use them.

Dave Shepard

What are you using for calculating, and what "three" categories are you checking for? A 12"x18" is huge.
Wood-Mizer LT40HDD51-WR Wireless, Kubota L48, Honda Rincon 650, TJ208 G-S, and a 60"LogRite!

jimdad07

Quote from: Dave Shepard on June 02, 2015, 12:15:17 PM
What are you using for calculating, and what "three" categories are you checking for? A 12"x18" is huge.

I am using the beam and stringer calculator in the forum toolbox, checking deflection, fiber stress and shear.  I think if I set my second floor live load to a more standard number like 60psf I bet the sizing would be a helluva lot smaller.  I set it at a combined load of 114psf to take into account the odd airplane that might want to land in my barn.  All kidding aside I set the number high for heavy green lumber.  I bet if I broke it up as planning out my eave space for the lumber storage I could get a smaller beam as those areas will only have a span of 8' to support vs. the 14' I figured the whole thing for.
BTW, I did do the test numbers that the calculator set forth to make sure that my numbers would come out right.

Hudson HFE 30 Homesteader bandmill w/28' of track
Couple tractors, a bunch of chainsaws and not enough time to use them.

jimdad07

Going to see if I can load a pic of my first floor plans, tried last night and couldn't make it happen.  I still need to finish dimensioning them but it might give you guys a better understanding of what I'm doing.  I still need to place the stairs for the second floor, the plan is to put them in the first bent to the left of the main south door if you're looking into the building.  Plan to have a landing at half the height and turn them to enter close to the center of the second floor.


 
Hudson HFE 30 Homesteader bandmill w/28' of track
Couple tractors, a bunch of chainsaws and not enough time to use them.

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