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[Bolson32]

Hi All,

First I want to say what a fantastic community you guys have going here. I stumbled onto this last night looking for some info on different trees and this place appears to be the best one by far. 

I've taken a keen interest over the past few years on tree planting as my parents built their newest home on a private lake my family owns in the middle of an old corn field on a county highway. Since then we've planted about a 1000 trees on their few acres in an attempt to grow some privacy. Hybrid Poplars, White spruce, White Pine, Norway Spruce, etc. They seem to be doing pretty good but I have a new project I'd like some advice on. 

My wife and I just bought our new home on a 1.5-acre lot on the eastern suburbs of the Twin Cities(Minnesota) and the rear of our property butts up to a pretty busy county highway. There's definitely a noise factor but I'm more interested in building a visual barrier to the traffic than anything. The road is a good 350ft from the house so it's not like we're right on it, but it's still not something I want to be watching every day. There's 3 other neighbors on the same block and for whatever reason, whoever owned my house before didn't care and never planted anything there. Everyone else has fairly mature trees along the roadway. Lot's of spruce on one end, the neighbor to the North has a few red pines(they don't do much, but it's something) and the neighbor to the South has a number of very mature maples and ash trees that almost completely block the road in the summer. (We don't care about the winter, no one goes outside then anyway :D ). I'll attach an aerial photo for reference. The measured distance is where I'd be planting. 

The span is about 175ft between both neighbors sets of trees. I'm thinking about running two rows of trees along the roadway. Each row would consist of alternating Hybrid Poplar and Norway Spruce with 7.5ft spacing. Essentially a Hybrid Poplar every 15 ft, and then a Norway Spruce every 15 ft in the same row. Then the second row would be the same, just staggering the species. The idea is that Poplars can provide some type of relatively quick screening while giving the spruce some time to fill in. I can't imagine they'll get much shade from the Poplars, but Norway's do tend to be shade tolerant from what I've gathered. That way in 10-15 years I can harvest the poplar's for firewood and hopefully by then the Norway's are tall enough to block the road. 

There's a nursery near here that is selling a Hybrid cultivar called Poplar Robusta – Populus x deltoids 'Robusta', developed at the University here. Supposed to actually be a little fatter up top than the traditional columnar poplars. That's probably the route I'd go but I'm very open to suggestions. I'll probably buy the biggest bare root stock they have and go from there.

Thank you all in advance!



 

[Crusarius]

Ever think about just planting a hedge? yews work very well for blocking out everything. They grow fast to.

May be worth planting yews along the lot line then infill other parts of the yard with other types of trees you already discussed.

[Bolson32]

Ever think about just planting a hedge? yews work very well for blocking out everything. They grow fast to.

May be worth planting yews along the lot line then infill other parts of the yard with other types of trees you already discussed.

I'm not too familiar with yews, but I had considered some dogwoods. The couple nursery's around here don't appear to have any that get too terribly tall. Since the road sits a good few feet above the lot itself I think I need something that's at least 15ft tall to block the majority of the road from view. The taller the better. I attached a street view, there's a handful of shrubs there that are actually about 5ft tall and you can see that they're not anywhere near blocking the view of the house. That's why I was thinking Poplars since they shoot up pretty quick and I could keep them pruned so you can walk beneath them and give the spruce a chance to get some air and sunlight. I edited the photo and you can see an Apple tree that's behind my neighbor's garden. That's about 15-18ft tall I believe. 

*Edited the photo as you can't really see my house. Labeled it and added an arrow to an Apple Tree. 



 

[Roundhouse]

Looks you're far enough from the road to be out of wintertime salt spray which can be a problem for young trees. I do wonder if that whole 175' span is fair game for planting? By the looks of the lawn patterns the north end of the opening is likely on your neighbor's lot. Not that this can't be overcome if you are on good terms with them but worth getting on the same page before digging any holes.

[Bolson32]

Looks you're far enough from the road to be out of wintertime salt spray which can be a problem for young trees. I do wonder if that whole 175' span is fair game for planting? By the looks of the lawn patterns the north end of the opening is likely on your neighbor's lot. Not that this can't be overcome if you are on good terms with them but worth getting on the same page before digging any holes.

I actually had this little bit mentioned in my original draft of the post but you're 100% correct. There's about 30' of the neighbors yard I want to cover as well. We've chatted about it and I don't think it'll be a problem, we're on great terms. I'll buy them and take care of them. Really it's win-win for him. I've also offered to remove them if they're ever a problem.

As for the salt I should be a GOOD 50-70ft from the plow path I would think. There's a good 6-8' of shoulder and I probably have 25ft of downslope. I also have some powerlines that I want to be back far enough from to not bother ever.

Do you have any thoughts on the species selection and staggering the spruce/poplar?

[btulloh]

With poplar, you'll lose a lot screening in the winter, if that matters. 

Down here, arborvitae are used a lot. Fast growing, evergreen, screen top to bottom. I don't know how far north they grow though. 

[Bolson32]

With poplar, you'll lose a lot screening in the winter, if that matters.

Down here, arborvitae are used a lot. Fast growing, evergreen, screen top to bottom. I don't know how far north they grow though.

Not even a little bit! :D :D Winters up here are notoriously nasty so I won't be outside anyway.

And there are some Arbovitae's up here but they usually can't be had bare-root and are quite pricey. I'm not sure how some of the cultivars down there grow but a lot of the ones up here seem to be of the dwarf variety and may or may not be as wide. I just don't see many north of 10-15ft. That's not to say I'm not looking in the right spot but Spruce seem to be more widely used.

[btulloh]

And there are some Arbovitae's up here but they usually can't be had bare-root and are quite pricey. I'm not sure how some of the cultivars down there grow but a lot of the ones up here seem to be of the dwarf variety and may or may not be as wide. I just don't see many north of 10-15ft.

Gotcha.  Price matters for the quantity you'll need, unless money is no object.  Down here there are several different cultivars in use ranging from pretty big to really big.  Different climate I s'pose.

Good luck.  You've got a nice place there and when your screen gets big enough you can get back to being yourself .

[Bolson32]

Gotcha.  Price matters for the quantity you'll need, unless money is no object.  Down here there are several different cultivars in use ranging from pretty big to really big.  Different climate I s'pose.

Good luck.  You've got a nice place there and when your screen gets big enough you can get back to being yourself .

Yea I definitely don't mind spending more for larger stock to an extent. But there's a difference between spending $17 for 5' tall Poplar stock and $50-100 for B&B Cedar trees. I figure I'll need about 22 of each and 44 total so it definitely adds up. My favorite Nursery in western WI has White Spruce 24-40" tall for $3 a piece.

And thank you! Thinking I'll take some pictures and maybe start a post so people can follow along. Hopefully, it's a success but if it crashes and burns people will learn something from that as well.

[Ron Scott]

Looks like you have a plan. 

You might want to consider Norway spruce instead of white spruce. It is more aesthetic and provides a fuller windbreak barrier.

Lombardy poplar is also often used for boundary windbreaks.

[Bolson32]

Looks like you have a plan.

You might want to consider Norway spruce instead of white spruce. It is more aesthetic and provides a fuller windbreak barrier.

Typically grows a little faster as well correct? I had a friend recommend White Spruce because he's had better luck with them filling out vs some spindly Norways. But that could be due to being planted in grass fields with competition. Wouldn't be a concern for me. There are all 3 types in other neighbor's yards and all 3 seem to do pretty *DanG well there. I could do a row of each. 


White's on the west side in case the Norway's outpace them for better sunlight. 

[btulloh]

I like that row of each idea. Especially since I don't have plant them or pay for them. 

[Clark]

Slower growing but more interesting would be Crimson spire oak, a cross between bur and English oak. I've been told they have leaves for 11 months of the year which would help on the year round screen. I know, you don't care but it may factor into the price the next person is willing to pay for you place. Granted, pricier but it would add interest.

If you plant the cottonwood and spruce make sure the cottonwood don't shade out the spruce at any point in their development. Spruce don't tend to recover by growing a robust crown after it has been shaded.

Clark

[Okefenokee_D]

Cedars are good for a privacy screen.

[Roundhouse]

Do you have any thoughts on the species selection and staggering the spruce/poplar?

I'm about 25 miles due east of you, same climate, not sure about your soils (ours is quite sandy here). I like the staggering idea just cautioning as others have about putting them too close to each other and having a issue with shading the spruce. You probably have room for a big staggering leaving plenty of room to mow in between. All that sun and rain should keep the trees full and fast growing while still providing visual cover. In my experience here, we bought our place 19 years ago and there was one big spruce and one smallish box elder in the yard. I've transplanted some trees from my woodlot (200 miles north of here) and they've done well, no poplar but some hard maple. I moved them in a 5 gallon buckets with dirt and roots when the trees were about 1-2 feet tall. One has grown to where it's approaching the height of the 40' spruce, another probably 20'+, two more I've moved and planted as shoots that came up next to the first two trees. One of the shoots is now 15' tall and has replaced the box elder. My wife is not fond of all the "helicopter" seed pods the mature maple produces but you have plenty of distance where that shouldn't be an issue. They will produce a lot of saplings in any area that isn't mowed a couple times per year. I've moved in two spruce trees that have also done well, these are my "daughter's trees" planted after each was born. My eldest is 13 and her spruce is a nice full 8"+ tall, the other is full and healthy but hasn't hit that exponential growth stage yet.
Good luck! I'm pretty sure I commute past your place each day on County 13.

[Bolson32]

I'm about 25 miles due east of you, same climate, not sure about your soils (ours is quite sandy here). I like the staggering idea just cautioning as others have about putting them too close to each other and having a issue with shading the spruce. You probably have room for a big staggering leaving plenty of room to mow in between. All that sun and rain should keep the trees full and fast growing while still providing visual cover. 

Good luck! I'm pretty sure I commute past your place each day on County 13.

I bet you do! Out of curiosity do you always take Inwood or just now because of the construction of 694? It's quite the throughput during commute times but I've had more than one person tell me they take it because of the construction on the parallel section of 694. Hopefully you can keep tabs on my progress next spring!
As soil here it's not as sandy. More loam to slightly clay-ish. I think it's actually probably a pretty good soil consistency as it should hold water quite well during the dry times. The neighbors have some of the healthiest grass I've ever seen and they don't have sprinklers. 
You comment on the spacing got me thinking you might be right. I really don't think I'll have shade issues at least for quite a few years, but I'm thinking a bit more room would he handy to prevent crowding and make them easier to mow around. I have a JD 1026r with a 60" deck so at 7.5ft apart that doesn't leave much room for mowing after mulch. Maybe something like 9ft between trees would be better. 

[Bolson32]

Slower growing but more interesting would be Crimson spire oak, a cross between bur and English oak. I've been told they have leaves for 11 months of the year which would help on the year round screen. I know, you don't care but it may factor into the price the next person is willing to pay for you place. Granted, pricier but it would add interest.

If you plant the cottonwood and spruce make sure the cottonwood don't shade out the spruce at any point in their development. Spruce don't tend to recover by growing a robust crown after it has been shaded.

Clark

Thanks, Clark! Do you have any experience with Norway vs White Spruce? I've read a fair bit that Norway's are a bit more shade tolerant which is why I was leaning that way. 
As for the Crimson Spire oak, I don't see them available from any of my go-to nurseries but that's an interesting cultivar no less. I may plant some as an accent tree but it seems they're only available from a place like Gerten's at $100+ a pop. It would cost a small fortune to put them across the back of my lot. But they sure are pretty, maybe add a couple as accent pieces at the end of the screen or something. They seem to be something that's longer living than the Lombardy poplar. 

[Roundhouse]

I bet you do! Out of curiosity do you always take Inwood or just now because of the construction of 694? It's quite the throughput during commute times but I've had more than one person tell me they take it because of the construction on the parallel section of 694. 


I'm going from Wisconsin to the express bus stop so no it's not due to 694 but I sure have noticed the increased traffic especially in the evenings, it's a little crazy. I take Inwood in the mornings but take 10th in the afternoons usually. They just made a new light operational on Woodbury Drive by the Quick Trip so I'll probably go that way in the evenings now. The work on 694 (and Inwood and 94) can't end soon enough.

[Nebraska]

Since I'm a sucker for lilac bushes and apparently  it easy to suggest extra stuff to someone else's plan... I would throw a row of them 2 to three feet a part just off the edge of the right of way,  in five years or so they will get tall  an thick enough that you won't see much traffic.  Then a staggered row of Spruce,  then the Oak hybrids mentioned above four or five across that space, then 2 or 3 smaller flowering trees... crab apples, flowering pear, flame maple.  I think in 20 years that would look really good.  All flowered up.  Just my 2 cents.  It's kind of the way they do farm windbreaks around here, it looks like you have space.  That and I am a hater of yew bushes, every few years somebody's  city friend will haul their yard clippings out and dump them in sombody's tree pile and the livestock will try them out.  They quickly become deadstock.  Yew has a nasty toxin in it,  a hand full of the green needles will take out a cow.  Just my rant on yew bushes, be careful of where needles are dumped.

[Crusarius]

Nebraska, thanks for that info. I had no idea. I still like them for windbreak and annoying neighbor blocks. Maybe the toxin could take care of the annoying neighbors?

[Bolson32]

Since I'm a sucker for lilac bushes and apparently it's easy to suggest extra stuff to someone else's plan... I would throw a row of them 2 to three feet a part just off the edge of the right of way,  in five years or so they will get tall  an thick enough that you won't see much traffic.  Then a staggered row of Spruce,  then the Oak hybrids mentioned above four or five across that space, then 2 or 3 smaller flowering trees... crab apples, flowering pear, flame maple.  

You're actually right on schedule. I had a crisis of conscience last night with the Poplars as I was walking out by the road and realized I don't need quite as tall of a block as I originally thought. Those crappy bushes that are getting yanked are about 6ft tall, and from the dining room of the house, they just cover the bottom of the road. So if I start my rows there, 8-10ft of height ought to do it.

I was thinking of replacing the poplar's in my plan with Sienna Glen Maples and increasing the spacing a little bit. I can get 5' Bare roots for about $30 a piece and in a few years they should be tall enough to start blocking some of the traffic. With that said, I'm not sure I want to put them staggered with the Spruce as I'm wondering if the roots would choke out the spruce. I actually really like your suggestion. Is there any concern with the maples shading out the spruce? Or will they get enough morning sun? I was thinking something like the below.

[Nebraska]

No I think you will be fine as long as you follow recommend spacing.  I put a row of lilacs in last year at my dog house /cabin just off of the right of way like you are.  I set the lilacs up in two rows two feet apart with a two ft stagger. _-_-_-_-_-   sort of like that. 
I have no earthly idea how you got that nifty diagram posted up here but I like your plan. Another nice shrub Is Red Dogwood, it likes wetter spots and has nice red branches for some color in the winter. It probably  isn't as dense of a screen as the lilac are. As long as you think 20/25 years ahead when you plant you'll be good. I use a nursery in Wisconsin too and have had great luck  with their stuff.  Hundreds of examples below my house. 

[Bolson32]

No I think you will be fine as long as you follow recommend spacing.  I put a row of lilacs in last year at my dog house /cabin just off of the right of way like you are.  I set the lilacs up in two rows two feet apart with a two ft stagger. _-_-_-_-_-   sort of like that.
I have no earthly idea how you got that nifty diagram posted up here but I like your plan. Another nice shrub Is Red Dogwood, it likes wetter spots and has nice red branches for some color in the winter. It probably  isn't as dense of a screen as the lilac are. As long as you think 20/25 years ahead when you plant you'll be good. I use a nursery in Wisconsin too and have had great luck  with their stuff.  Hundreds of examples below my house.

Thanks! It's just a screenshot of an excel spreedsheet. What nursery do you use? Paint Creek per chance?

I was considering Dogwoods too, in fact they may grow a little faster but you're right the density probably isn't as good. I do REALLY like the look of Red Osiers pretty much all year. Even in the winter they're really cool to look at. 

And that's good to know, I actually just drove by someone's house a half mile down the road this morning and they had a similar layout, spruce at the ditch/road and hardwoods scattered behind them. They had a few good years of growth but it didn't look like it would be much of an issue.