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Beams for sawmill shed

Started by warren46, May 14, 2014, 12:32:58 PM

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warren46

I finally got around to sawing two beams for my new sawmill shed.  I had two red oak logs over 20' long that would make 6 X 12.  I want an opening of 20 feet on the two sides of the shed so I can get logs on the mill and slabs out of the back.

The larger log reached the limits of my mill and took about two hours to saw.  I got six 2X12's as side lumber.  A 20' green red oak 2X12 is a lot to take off of the mill.


  

  

 
Warren E. Johnson
Timber Harvester 36HTE25, John Deere 300b backhoe/loader.

Bill Gaiche

Yip, them suckers be heavy. bg

hackberry jake

The fun part is when you try to raise them in the air and set them on beams!
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ddcuning

I don't mean to stir up trouble but according to my structural engineer, you cannot span 20' with conventional lumber 12" deep. Oak especially does not span well. Pine spans much better. When I built my sawmill shed, I put a 20' opening at the log deck and had to go with a laminated 14"x5-1/4" beam before the structural engineer would buy off on it. (don't quote me on the 5-1/4", that is going off of memory).

Just my experience.

Dave C
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SPD748

I agree with Dave. I'd have an engineer look over and approve your span plans before committing. A few dollars now just may save your life later.

-lee
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Dave Shepard

There is a beam that runs up the middle of my basement that supports the floor joists. One half is laminated hemlock lumber, which is straight as an arrow. The other end is some kind of oak. It has huge dips between the columns, with subsequent dips in the floors on both the first and second floor of the house. The house was built in '50 or '51. Maybe the beam should be stickered flat for a few decades before you put it up. :D
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warren46

Looks like I should revise my plan. I'll check it out.  Thanks for the suggestion.

Warren
Warren E. Johnson
Timber Harvester 36HTE25, John Deere 300b backhoe/loader.

acrosteve

Maybe a little off topic, but where does poplar land as material for beams?  I have been contemplating doing something similar - Though maybe just 16' wide.


Thanks
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hackberry jake

I used a hickory 6x10 for mine, but it is only 16'. I wouldn't be afraid of using the oak 6x12s to span 20' but I would give them substantial knee braces on each side to bring the actual spanned distance closer to 16'. You would still have a 20' wide opening towards the bottom where most logs and lumber pass through.
I just looked up Don-ps calcs in the tool box and it says a 20' #2 read oak beam should hold about 3,200 lbs.

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EZ Boardwalk Jr. With 20hp Honda, 25' of track, and homemade setworks. 32x18 sawshed. 24x40 insulated shop. 30hp kubota with fel. 1978 Massey ferguson 230.

WoodenHead

I'm not a structural engineer, but I have tried to calculate the size of beam required for a 20' span.  I had white pine to work with (which is not as good as some other choices).  In the end the beam had to be too large for my liking so I went with steel instead to handle our snow load.  Building code for my particular area requires me to use 45 pounds per square foot for roof load.  Here's a document from the American Wood Council that I found useful:

http://www.awc.org/pdf/wsdd/c2d.pdf

http://www.awc.org/pdf/wsdd/c2b.pdf contains some formulas I believe.

drobertson

We used three 2x12 with a 7/16 chip board as a laminate, straight as a sting for the last 7 years or so, laminating does help on free spans. not sure on engineering requirements.  Pretty sure the pitch has as much to do with it as does snow loads.  If it were me, I would use 2x12's laminated, switching the grain pattern with a plywood or chip board between them.  Codes are important, for many reasons.  Oak is very strong, as is pine, crown up,  watching for knots.  by the way, that is a mighty fine looking red oak! very nice 20' log.
only have a few chain saws I'm not suppose to use, but will at times, one dog Dolly, pretty good dog, just not sure what for yet,  working on getting the gardening back in order, and kinda thinking on maybe a small bbq bizz,  thinking about it,

Dave Shepard

3/8 or 1/2 steel plate would be a really good laminate for that application.
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drobertson

Quote from: Dave Shepard on May 16, 2014, 08:31:29 PM
3/8 or 1/2 steel plate would be a really good laminate for that application.
Agee on this, but maybe over kill. If going with steel, then why not just use an I-beam?  the stock is there, just laminate it with plywood or osb?
only have a few chain saws I'm not suppose to use, but will at times, one dog Dolly, pretty good dog, just not sure what for yet,  working on getting the gardening back in order, and kinda thinking on maybe a small bbq bizz,  thinking about it,

hackberry jake

I don't know about osb and being exposed to the humidity of outside. OSB scares me. I have a funny feeling that in 20 years or so, houses around the nation will just start collapsing because the OSB degraded... Maybe it's just me.
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EZ Boardwalk Jr. With 20hp Honda, 25' of track, and homemade setworks. 32x18 sawshed. 24x40 insulated shop. 30hp kubota with fel. 1978 Massey ferguson 230.

scot wolf

How 'bout resawing oak into 4/4 boards and selling.  Should be be plenty proceeds to buy some LVL for the beams.
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Peter Drouin

Quote from: hackberry jake on May 16, 2014, 11:29:14 PM
I don't know about osb and being exposed to the humidity of outside. OSB scares me. I have a funny feeling that in 20 years or so, houses around the nation will just start collapsing because the OSB degraded... Maybe it's just me.


smiley_thumbsup


My oak is 10x12x24' looks ok to me.


 
see it at the far end . I used steel for the 45' door on the left
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drobertson

Reading posts is sometimes difficult to read the exact intents to original questions, I understood the existing lumber was to be used for various reasons, such the reason I suggested OSB,
http://www.sishomes.com/components_benefits.html
It seems these new engineered systems are quite adequate for spanning lengths, safely,
only have a few chain saws I'm not suppose to use, but will at times, one dog Dolly, pretty good dog, just not sure what for yet,  working on getting the gardening back in order, and kinda thinking on maybe a small bbq bizz,  thinking about it,

bandmiller2

Warren, I would consider making your own trusses, there was a lot of talk of this here not long ago. My tractor shed and mill roof utilized oak timbers for many years no problems. Oak will sag but it won't break. Warren if you decide to use the oak timbers you can reduce the span with 45 degree braces they greatly reduce the span and are not in the way for loading logs. Frank C.
A man armed with common sense is packing a big piece

warren46

After reading all of the above suggestions I think I will use the beams with knee braces at the ends.  I can reduce the free span to an effective 14 feet if the knee braces are each 3 feet from the ends.

I can accept a little sag but want to avoid a catastrophic failure.

Warren
Warren E. Johnson
Timber Harvester 36HTE25, John Deere 300b backhoe/loader.

kelLOGg

Quote from: hackberry jake on May 14, 2014, 03:21:01 PM
The fun part is when you try to raise them in the air and set them on beams!

I agree - that is the fun part. On the sheds I have built I had much rather install the beams than set the posts. Once up, I rig the posts with hoists and up-up-up go the beams.

 


These chain clamps cinch the posts together very tightly.


 
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ozarkgem

Quote from: warren46 on May 18, 2014, 02:21:41 PM
After reading all of the above suggestions I think I will use the beams with knee braces at the ends.  I can reduce the free span to an effective 14 feet if the knee braces are each 3 feet from the ends.

I can accept a little sag but want to avoid a catastrophic failure.

Warren
'I used 2 2x12 nailed together to span a 20' opening for my mill. Shed is 28' wide 4/12 pitch. 15 yrs no problems. Depends on snow load is guess. I have a 25' span in my cabin I used 4- 2x8's glued and screwed for the ridge beam. 16' wide 4/12 pitch. My other cabin is 20' wide 8/12 pitch and I used 3 2x10's for the ridge beam spanning 20'. Now these are all for the ridge except for the sawmill shed opening. You get some support from the rafters on the ridge beams. I have a couple of books on wood engineering and it has span tables. IF I remember right solid beams have to be huge. My Amish neighbors built a 150' span wood bridge for Bass Pro and the timbers were huge. Forgot my camera that day. Pretty impressive.
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bandmiller2

You'll be fine Warren your old enough to know what works. You can always bolt on  some steel plate on the in side of the 6x12 or even 2x12 oak planks. Show us when your done. Frank C.
A man armed with common sense is packing a big piece

Alcranb

Probably a foolish question but.....is there more strength, less chance of bowing in say 3, 2" x 6" x 20's nailed together than one 6" x 6" x 20' beam?
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thecfarm

Seem like someone posted something about taking 3 diffeant 2x6 or using the same one but flipping one over and turning one end for end. That way any defeat would not be in the same place??
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tmarch

Quote from: Alcranb on May 19, 2014, 09:17:55 AM
Probably a foolish question but.....is there more strength, less chance of bowing in say 3, 2" x 6" x 20's nailed together than one 6" x 6" x 20' beam?
There is a lot more strength if the grain is opposing and of course the knots or defects in different places along the beam.
Retired to the ranch, saw, and sell solar pumps.

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