Sugar maple invasion

[wisconsitom]

Klunker,

Pretty common up here by Appleton as well, in moist mesic woods.  I think most years, a majority of those seedlings are subsequently killed off by dry soil at some point during the first season.  Later, however many have survived will go into normal competition, leading to very few ultimate survivors.

So it tends, I think.

tom

[SwampDonkey]

I have thinned some pretty thick sugar maple saplings after clear cuts, sometimes they even get over taken by yellow birch regen after the cut. One yellow birch can produce a lot more seed than 10 maples. Skidders tend to make the best seed bed for those mature birch catkins in the fall.

[Woodpecker52]

Trees put out seeds each year thousands and thousands, some years you have great germination etc.  A thing called competition for nutrients, light, water etc. causes most to die off thin out naturally, and no its not the result of global warming!  The forest has a way of taking care of itself over time.  In the mind set of the industrialist one must maximize profits so of course most hardwood "weed trees"  "green Junk" "Un merchantables " must be dealt a swift death, instead of letting it live producing oxygen, throwing vast amount of water vapor in the air. and just being a living organism that God gave us to take care of.

[wisconsitom]

The "competition" model for forest tree interactions is outdated.  Yes, there likely is such a thing, but modern research is showing the exact opposite-cooperation between individual trees of a given species.  Sap flow from a mature, healthy doug fir was shown to be shunted to a weak, over-topped sapling nearby....and it took only minutes to start flowing in that direction.

Likewise with the now-more-well-understood mycorrhizal network....trees interact in ways we didn't even imagine a few years ago.  Much, much more complicated than a simple collection of organisms in competition with each other.

tom

[SwampDonkey]

Science is always evolving, changing paths as we discover more. That's what it does. It is not static or written down on stone tablets never to be changed. Some of what you are saying has been known for decades. ;) Root grafting, mycorrhizal networks, leaf morphology in response to light availability etc.

Competition above ground has been the easiest and least costly to manage. We tend to take the path to easy and cost effective. ;)

Prichett, Brady and others wrote about it years ago.

[Woodpecker52]

I was educated in the school of forestry that said burn it, inject it, girdle it, and if you want to get technical spray it with 24D, and lets not forget it will be good for the turkeys its always for the puppies and turkeys!

[SwampDonkey]

We have turkeys up here in maple country. So if it is to save oak for turkeys, then rest easy. They're tough'r than penguins.  :D

[wisconsitom]

Turkeys had made it all the way up to the UP border more than 20 years ago.  That mostly ain't oak country and the birds show no ill effects.  Wild turkeys/deer=modern-day rats of the forest....in my humble opinion!  Zero novelty in seeing either one.  And I've darn-near stepped on nesting young birds when walking thru my high grass areas.

The animal we've got in and around our farm that interests me is the ring-necked pheasant.  No longer common in very many areas of the state, that area of hardscrabble farms, fields and woods is evidently still to their liking.  I hear the rooster cackle when working within my plantation.  

Some grouse around, but as you may know, that is a highly cyclical population.

tom

[SwampDonkey]

Yep, we have pheasants to. There are a few pheasant hunting ranges around here to. I don't see them as much at this house, but down at the other house, which is only 30 miles away, we had them in the yard every day. They like gardens as much as the deer. They fluff in the potato rows, eat peas and beans that germinate and like lettuce seedlings. :D Then any berry fruit or grapes they can steal.

[wisconsitom]

I'm usually all about the native plants and animals.  But I sure do enjoy seeing and/or hearing that Chinese bird around!

tom

[Woodpecker52]

I was just making a joke at the sales pitch for pine plantations in the south in which the thought was lets eradicate hardwoods anyway possible and replace them with pines.  Of course at various tax breaks, cost sharing etc. The funniest line being it was so good for the wildlife especially turkeys!  Which I am sure a turkey would rather live in a pine stand and eat pine STRAW ( a real turkey in the straw). I Have pine plantations that border my JUNK hardwoods and the funny thing is that they like my habitat better and I have plenty of black jack oak, post oak, black gum, poplar, sweetgum, iron wood, beech, and other such so called by experts WEED trees. And yes I know the spill about prescribed burning which I have done on thousands of acres in the past and wildlife management etc.  Most hunters manage the land around here by disc and planting food plots and by WALMART corn in feeders, must feed the turkeys and turn the deer herd into cattle where they walk down the roads at feeder turn on time.

[wisconsitom]

My property consists of woods, pine/spruce/larch plantation, pond area, bits of "field' that hasn't yet been recolonized by trees.....and the spot where I tend to witness the most varied bird population and the most wildlife generally is within the plantation area.  Folks used to call such stands "wildlife deserts".  Those folks were wrong!  And I'll bet they didn't own or manage forest plantations either.

tom

[Woodpecker52]

Enter a 10 to 15 year old plantation with a 6 inch mat of pine straw its the greatest for stopping erosion and growing pulp and small logs but do not tell me its best for the turkeys.

[wisconsitom]

My favorite "straw" is that under the deciduous larch trees.  Big drop of smallish needles every fall....builds up quickly into soft, beautiful layer.  We like to pitch tents on that stuff.

tom

[SwampDonkey]

What's best for the turkeys is mixed forest, open fields with crops they eat, old fields growing up with apple, hawthorns, plums, cranberries etc....... I have plantations, I see a lot of grouse, moose, bear and coyote in them. Haven't seen pheasants and turkeys in it yet. But my plantations are not pure, they probably have 15 hardwood species, and 7 softwood species mixed throughout. I have a lot of red squirrels if piles of cone scales is any indication. :D