Brainiac Needed

Fla._Deadheader · June 09, 2008, 09:51:01 PM

I am somewhat familiar with Rife Ram Water Pumps. I know they will produce 6-7' up lift, for every 1' of water supply head.

My project, if I choose to accept it, is, I want to pump water uphill to keep a pond full. I have a nice flow of water across our place, but, I don't know how to measure the height I need to push the water. There HAS to be a point where the water will not go any higher.

I need to measure the height, from the water, to the top of the hill. There are trees that I could sight off of, with a carpenters level, to get a TOP height.

HOW do I measure to that same height from the water level ???

Dave Shepard · June 09, 2008, 10:38:52 PM

Do you have a hose long enough? Fill a hose at the pond level, and put a pressure gauge at the source level. Devide pressure by .434 that will give you head in feet.

Dave

Don_Papenburg · June 09, 2008, 10:42:43 PM

You need a range pole and a spot to take readings from with the level. A laser would make it a lot easier.
Get an old aermotor windmill and a sealed piston pump and then you only have to figure how long the hose has to be.
Thats about the end of my brainy acts

Fla._Deadheader · June 09, 2008, 10:44:36 PM

Figuring head is easy. It's up that hill that's difficult. :

::)Must be 100' or more ???

Just need to KNOW. ;D ;D

AHHHhhhhhh. Just re-read your post. Not near enough hose, to reach down the hill to the water level.

Don, no wind where I need the pump. :

:

Tom · June 09, 2008, 10:53:01 PM

I like Don's idea. Use a pole instead of tree to siight against. You won't be able to do it all in one sighting, but you can measure the level on the pole if you move every 20 feet or so. Just move you to the site of the place the pole was, have someone move it ahead 20 paces and shoot it again. Keep adding the heights together till you get to the stream.

low_48 · June 09, 2008, 10:59:38 PM

Here is a link to a simple trig calculator site.
http://www.1728.com/trig.htm
You can plug in the hypotenuse (straight distance to the pond, parallel to the ground) and then measure the angle from vertical. It will give you the vertical distance.

Fla._Deadheader · June 09, 2008, 11:06:17 PM

This is a steep hill. I can run a 100 foot steel tape from the pond site, down the hill. I need to know the height of the hill. That would need to be stretching the tape straight out, into thin air, NO ??? That's why I asked. If I'm not thinking straight, educate me :

:

;D ;D

I've been thinking, how do I measure the height of a tree, that's very near the PUMP site ???

Don P · June 09, 2008, 11:12:41 PM

https://forestryforum.com/members/donp/3treehgtclcs.htm

I think I remember hearing of a ram in China that pumped a trickle up 3000'

Fla._Deadheader · June 09, 2008, 11:16:52 PM

OK. I've been there. Without the instruments, how do you figure the angle ???

I'm thinking there is a stick kinda thing, that a Forester can use, to gauge the height of a tree. Can't remember it's name or where I saw one described ???

Bill · June 09, 2008, 11:23:48 PM

Wanted - old Boy Scout that still has his memory

FWIW - I recall some way that a Boy Scout could measure something standing up by using a pencil. Let's chose a tree as an example. You stand off from what you want measure and pick a spot ( lets call it A ) at the bottom of the tree. You line up the pencil vertically with the spot on the bottom and note ( or mark ) where the top of the tree hits the pencil ( spot B ) . Then - keeping the distance to the tree the same - you move the pencil so its horizontal with the tree ( makes a 90 degree angle ) and line up that bottom spot ( A ) again. This time the mark a new spot ( spot C ) along the ground where the mark on the pencil for the top of the tree was ( spot B ) . Now measure ( with a tape or pace it off or . . . ) from the bottom of the tree ( spot A ) to the spot marked by the pencil ( spot C ) and you've got it.

Now a mind is a terrible thing to waste and I simply can't recall if I got all that right or in a way that makes sense.

Calling old Boy Scouts . . .

low_48 · June 09, 2008, 11:47:57 PM

A surveyor's transom would be the easiest way, but I think you could build one as well. Use a protractor, a plumb bob, a level, tripod, and a sighting board. Mount the board to something like a tripod with a way to pivot it and hold it level. Use the level to set the plumb bob string to 0 degrees on the protractor that is mounted to the board. Tilt the board back and sight up to the top of the hill. Read the angle from the plumb bob string on the protractor. Now you have the hypotenuse and one angle. The plug in calculator will now give you the vertical leg of the triangle.

Don P · June 09, 2008, 11:56:55 PM

DanG, I type too slow :D
protractor and a coupla straight edges?

No protractor, use a compass, make equidistant bisects along an arc on a piece of cardboard, label degrees and make one.

Hmmm, get fancy nail it by the arc's pivot to a walking stick. Hang a string and bob, tape a tube to the bottom straight surface of the protractor. Hang a level pointer off the stick at the pivot of the arc. Hold stick plumb, sight thru tube, swing to sight top and record degrees ???.

logwalker · June 09, 2008, 11:57:42 PM

Quote from: low_48 on June 09, 2008, 11:47:57 PM
Read the angle from the plumb bob string on the protractor. Now you have the hypotenuse and one angle. The plug in calculator will now give you the vertical leg of the triangle.

Forgive if I am wrong, but all I see here is you have an angle. That horizontal leg is not too easy to measure. Did you have a way to measure the length of the hypotenuse? Joe

logwalker · June 09, 2008, 11:59:08 PM

Quote from: Dave Shepard on June 09, 2008, 10:38:52 PM
Do you have a hose long enough? Fill a hose at the pond level, and put a pressure gauge at the source level. Devide pressure by .434 that will give you head in feet.

Dave

Dave has the right solution. You have to run a hose up there anyway. Done deal. Joe

Don P · June 10, 2008, 12:11:09 AM

Alot to be said for that.

QuoteOK. I've been there. Without the instruments, how do you figure the angle

I'm thinking there is a stick kinda thing, that a Forester can use, to gauge the height of a tree. Can't remember it's name or where I saw one described

Biltmore stick

Left Coast Chris · June 10, 2008, 01:14:29 AM

Try this:

Find a smaller triangle that is the same proportion as the larger triangle.

The larger triangle would be from the lake to the stream. Call the hypotonuse H1 (direct line of sight from the stream to the pond on an upward angle) and the vertical leg Y1. You want to find Y1 and it sounds like you can measure H1.

Determine a small triangle that you can measure. Drive an 8' stake in the ground so that the top will be exactly in the same line of sight from the stream to the pond or line H1. Have someone help you measure from your eye to the top of the stake and call that H2. Then use a 4' level or pocket surveyors level to sight a point on the stake. Measure from that spot on the stake to the top and that will be Y2.

Proportionally H2/Y2 = H1/Y1

To solve that equation simply cross multiply: H2(Y1) = Y2(H1)

Isolate Y1 by taking Y2(H1)/H2 = Y1

trim4u2nv · June 10, 2008, 01:24:59 AM

You can get fairy accurate readings with a GPS over a 15 minute to 24 hour (more accurate) reading by taking averages at the lowest and highest point. Call the manufacturer for best method.

http://www.syz.com/gps/gpsaveraging.html

Jeff · June 10, 2008, 07:53:17 AM

http://home.howstuffworks.com/science-projects-for-kids-measuring2.htm

Fla._Deadheader · June 10, 2008, 08:08:13 PM

C'mon down and hep me, Big Boy.

Brang yer runnin shues, cause, onct you get er movin, she ain't stopin till yer at the boddum :

:

;D ;D :D :D :D I'll have the cammarra reddie ;D ;D ;D ;D

Jeff · June 10, 2008, 08:23:25 PM

I could do it now Mr. Harold. I wish I was in there in the shape I am now then the shape I was then. I'm 20 years younger. ;D

Warbird · June 10, 2008, 09:00:23 PM

Wow. What's your secret, Jeff? Just workin' out and eatin' healthy?

Fla._Deadheader · June 10, 2008, 09:20:03 PM

:D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D

johnjbc · June 11, 2008, 11:30:04 PM

Run a string from the bottom of the hill to the top. Use a level and a protractor to measure the angle. Then measure how long your string was and you got it

Don_Papenburg · June 12, 2008, 12:26:16 AM

To find the hight of the tree ; Measure the shadow length , measure your shadow length . Devide by your hight that gives you the ratio to devide the trees shadow to get its hight .
Another way an older feller told me was to stand with you back to the tree spread your legs a bit , bend over enough to look at the tree through your legs . now move forward or back till you can see the top of the tree. Measure the distance from you to the tree . That will give you the hight of the tree.

low_48 · June 12, 2008, 10:09:45 AM

Quote from: Don_Papenburg on June 12, 2008, 12:26:16 AM
To find the hight of the tree ; Measure the shadow length , measure your shadow length . Devide by your hight that gives you the ratio to devide the trees shadow to get its hight .
Another way an older feller told me was to stand with you back to the tree spread your legs a bit , bend over enough to look at the tree through your legs . now move forward or back till you can see the top of the tree. Measure the distance from you to the tree . That will give you the hight of the tree.

Considering the average age and I presume girth diameter of most of the forumites, this might be a tall order Don. Just imagine if you were on one of those mountains that the Axmen worked on. You would be rolling down the mountain trying to get a look at the top of one of those 200 footers. I guess you would see the top every revolution of your summersalts.

I don't think my back has been that limber enough in 25 years for this technique.
I'm sure it works though!

Coon · June 12, 2008, 01:03:11 PM

I think this last method would fit in great with the redneck olympics, especially after a few of those barley pops. :D :D

Don_Papenburg · June 14, 2008, 12:45:25 AM

I never thought about useing that method on a hill :D ;D I can see all them tree hight checkers a rolling down the hills faster'n a hoopsnake . We don't have hills in my neck of the woods like the axmen play on.

I was just reporting a method of measure , I did not endorse one over the other. Compensation for loss resulting from the use of either method will be for no more than actual cost of the advice you recived. Paid by elastnomaric check drawn on the First Foresty Forum National Bank

fencerowphil (Phil L.) · June 14, 2008, 02:11:48 PM

The "stick" is the Biltmore stick (I think).

It basically works according to reply #15 by left coast chris.

Wouldn't a low tech water wheel, geared up to run a gear-mesh
type pump be a more efficient way to get the water up that hill?
Or a slow water wheel hooked to a mudhog diaphragm pump?

Fla._Deadheader · June 14, 2008, 02:20:09 PM

No Phil
When it rains hard (Regularly) the waterwheel would have problems from flooding. The other requires fuel. The Ram requires nothing but water weight, to pump water. There is so much debris in this area, it would be better to just run a metal Pipe from an access to the water, to a dedicated area away from the flood area, and install the pump there.

I've got a real good handle on the situation. I combined several ideas from this thread, and found I have adequate water and weight to get done what I need.

Thanks to all for responding 8) 8)