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6.5 turbo diesel

Started by CLL, December 16, 2007, 10:24:43 PM

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CLL

Had to go to Cincinnati, over week-end, caught in snow storm. Here's the problem; under normal driving motor seems o.k., just not a lot of power. Under hard pull has heavy black smoke,and when you go down hill tacometer moves up and down usually around 300rpms, sometimes as much as 700rpms. Its sort of like running out of fuel but it never dies and in a second or two picks normal rpms back up. I'm going to chande fuel filter tomorrow, but I really don't think thats what it is. Looking for ideas!!!!!!!
Too much work-not enough pay.

Brian_Rhoad

Fuel filter is a very good place to start. If you have run any fuel with bio-diesel in it, it will act like a solvent and clean all the crud out of your fuel system. It all ends up in your filter. Also the filter will filter out water which will turn to slush in winter.

Haytrader

Check the air filter also. It may be starving for air.
Haytrader

logwalker

Is there snow in your air filter. Happened to me once. Very bad night on the road. Not likely in that vehicle but with the snow and all it came back to me. Joe
Let's all be careful out there tomorrow. Lt40hd, 22' Kenworth Flatbed rollback dump, MM45B Mitsubishi trackhoe, Clark5000lb Forklift, Kubota L2850 tractor

LeeB

I say air filter. Black smoke = not burning all the fuel.
'98 LT40HDD/Lombardini, Case 580L, Cat D4C, JD 3032 tractor, JD 5410 tractor, Husky 346, 372 and 562XP's. Stihl MS180 and MS361, 1998 and 2006 3/4 Ton 5.9 Cummins 4x4's, 1989 Dodge D100 w/ 318, and a 1966 Chevy C60 w/ dump bed.

Kcwoodbutcher

Worst case the turbo could be going bad or its control system. There's not enough air in the mix if you're getting black smoke.
My job is to do everything nobody else felt like doing today

Captain

Tell us what year it is, there are a lot of differences in 91-93 mechanical and 94-02 EFI 6.5L Diesels.  If you have a tachometer jumping around on a mechanical, I would say cam sensor, probably also leaking oil, that is shutting down your lift pump.  94+ would more likely be pump internal in the optical sensor, also setting trouble codes and check engine light as well.

Captain

logwalker

Those '94 and newer pumps do not last long. 90k to a 100k is pretty common time to crap out. Joe
Let's all be careful out there tomorrow. Lt40hd, 22' Kenworth Flatbed rollback dump, MM45B Mitsubishi trackhoe, Clark5000lb Forklift, Kubota L2850 tractor

Captain

The EFI pumps got much better in 99-00, anything replaced since then is NEW not reman and has all of the updates.

Captain

weimedog

If he's getting the black smoke chances are he's also getting more than enough fuel...so the actual pump might not be an issue but the controls could be. They tended to fry the little black box "PMD" (two 500 watt transistors)  The pumps died partly because of the heat trapped around them as well..those little "PMD" amps sitting right below didn't help as they add heat. That is why a popular mod on those 6.5 is a heat sink moving the "PMD" heat source away from the pump.

Another common failure on those 6.5 was this little "transfer" pump that was between the fuel tank and the fuel pump....relatively cheap but a pain to change.

Here's another possible controls issue:
http://www.mamut.com/homepages/Norway/3/4/royh/newsdet9.htm

Husqvarna 365sp/372xpw Blend, Jonsered 2171 51.4mm XPW build,562xp HTSS, 560 HTSS, 272XP, 61/272XP, 555, 257, 242, 238, Homelite S-XL 925, XP-1020A, Super XL (Dad's saw); Jonsered 2094, Three 920's, CS-2172, Solo 603; 3 Huztl MS660's (2 54mm and 1 56mm)

CLL

Appreciate all the input. Truck is a 96 GMC K2500 with 6.5  turbo. Today was a honey doooooooo day so I didn't check fuel or air filter. I had to put fuel sensing device on it about 60 days ago, sets right behind injector pump. Again I really appreciate the help as I am NOT real mechanically inclined, my son has all that ability, especially on small block chevys. I'll try to get to everthing in the next couple of days and let you know.
Too much work-not enough pay.

CLL

Isawlogs and scsmith42 thanks for the information, I sent Captain a personal IM. Thank You both.
Too much work-not enough pay.

barbender

At work, my foreman's pickup kept doing that, it was the control box that sat on top of the intake I believe. It overheats and burns itself out. When the diesel guy replaced it, he remounted it out in the open more where it could get some air. I can't remember what the part is called, but it is supposed to be a common failure on the 6.5. The problem is the 6.5 has many "common" failures >:(
Too many irons in the fire

Captain

Barbender that is the "PMD" or pump mounted driver referred to in an earlier post.

Captain

barbender

I see...I do not always catch on quickly ::)
Too many irons in the fire

Captain

No harm intended, good information just the same  :)

sawguy21

I ran a fleet of light trucks and we had a number of Chev 6.5 diesels. Good power, good on fuel, but they spent too much time in the shop.
old age and treachery will always overcome youth and enthusiasm

Weekend_Sawyer


I had an 82 6.2 chebby diesel. Worst truck I ever had. It was their first year for their "true" diesel.
I would have to change filters about every month, I knew it was time to change them as the engine wiould start surging on startup. It also used to eat glow pluggs and a couple of starters. When the injector pump went for the 3rd time I donated it to the boyscouts.

I love my new (to me) ford 6.0
Imagine, Me a Tree Farmer.
Jon, Appalachian American Wannabe.

isawlogs



   :) ;)

   I sure would like to know what was or is the problem with the 6.5  ...  I had a 6.2 in 87 , it was in a 3/4  3+3  4X4  pick-up with auto tranny , had the oil cooler lines , that where along the wheel well , not split open from wearing from vibration ... I dont think I would of changed the engin in that truck ... I put another one in , that had almost the same miles as mine and parked the truck at 500,000 kilometers ...  That was one of my bestess trucks . 
    I guess they made good ones and really bad ones ... Just like the old engins ... hit and miss  ;)
A man does not always grow wise as he grows old , but he always grows old as he grows wise .

   Marcel

CLL

Thanks to everyones help,it is really appreciated. HOWEVER !!!!  I would rather push my GMC rather than drive a ford.  ;D ;D
Too much work-not enough pay.

LeeB

If'n ya get tarred of pushin' maybe you can get somebody with a Dodge to drag you around. :D
'98 LT40HDD/Lombardini, Case 580L, Cat D4C, JD 3032 tractor, JD 5410 tractor, Husky 346, 372 and 562XP's. Stihl MS180 and MS361, 1998 and 2006 3/4 Ton 5.9 Cummins 4x4's, 1989 Dodge D100 w/ 318, and a 1966 Chevy C60 w/ dump bed.

logwalker

And with a Dodge dragging and a Ford pushing you just might get that 6.5 to go somewhere besides the repair shop ;D.
Let's all be careful out there tomorrow. Lt40hd, 22' Kenworth Flatbed rollback dump, MM45B Mitsubishi trackhoe, Clark5000lb Forklift, Kubota L2850 tractor

jpgreen

OK-

Check your battery cable contacts.  On this rig they need to be clean and tight with your batteries fully charged.

Check your Vacuum pump and make sure that is working. It's probably not if you haven't replaced it. What you are describing with the black smoke on a load is what this does when it's bad. Does your "service engine" light come on? On intermittently? This pump controls the waste gate, and it's probably not opening.  I bet this is your current problem.

The famous 6.5 PMD. Get a remote mount PMD pronto. If this isn't causing part of the problem it soon will. I replaced mine with a 7 year warranty unit from USdiesel.

Replace the Oil Pressure Sending switch.  That switch controls the lower lift pump and when it starts going bad, you will get hesitations like a plugged filter. There are contacts in there that continually work and burn out. GM improved that part. I can get you the new part number if you need it.

Replace your fuel filter if you already haven't lately. Be sure to run a anti gel/lubricity fuel additive as this crappola diesel nowadays will kill your injector pump, etc. 

If you need more info PM me.

The 6.2 and 6.5's are the most misunderstood, mythical false rumored engine I think ever built, and one of the best performing engines made when you understand and correct their shortcomings.  ..... :D ;D
-95 Wood-Mizer LT40HD 27 Hp Kawasaki water cooled engine-

jpgreen

Also things to be ready to replace are the serpentine belt tensioner pulley including it's arm assembly.  When it goes, it will render you helpless on the side of the road.  Cheap insurance.

Next some of the 6.5's were prone to crankshaft breakage. One cause is the harmonic balancer and the accessory serpentine belt pulley that sits in front of it.  As time, heat, and wear take their toll on the rubber in these two items, the crank sees much more stresses.  Some experts believe this is what causes the problem.

I replaced the serpentine pully, and the harmonic balancer with a Fluidamper balancer. Really noticed a smoother running engine when I installed it.  Pricey but my 95 6.5 is approaching 200,000 miles and runs as new.
-95 Wood-Mizer LT40HD 27 Hp Kawasaki water cooled engine-

Quartlow

Well since we seem to have some resident 6.5 experts here. My buddies just randomly shuts off, or cranks and won't start.

It wouldn't start yesterday and it was sitting in a heated garage. This morning it fired right up.
when it is running it runs great,
Breezewood 24 inch mill
Have a wooderful day!!

jpgreen

THat's most likely the PMD/FSD or/and the OPS. Replace and relocate.

Any 94-99's EFI injector pumped 6.5 should do all of the above listed as these are known falier prone parts and problems.

Go here for all you'll ever need to know on GM diesel:

http://www.thedieselpageforums.com/tdpforum/forumdisplay.php?f=7
-95 Wood-Mizer LT40HD 27 Hp Kawasaki water cooled engine-

Climber

Hey CLL,
I had 94 Chevy with 6.5 turbo diesel and had exactly same problem. It was funny, the temp sensor (not to your dashboard) was reading -35F so computer supplied with reach mixture.

I'll never again buy gas motor which some smart S converted to diesel.
Hey let's take excellent 350 small block stick diesel heads and call it off for engineering.
I don't think so.
Good luck

jpgreen

The 6.5 and 6.2 is not, or never was a 350 gas based engine.  Not even close- and a much wrongly promoted myth.

It was and is a Detriot Diesel original design from the ground up.

Now the Buick auto diesel was closer to that and another story...  ;D
-95 Wood-Mizer LT40HD 27 Hp Kawasaki water cooled engine-

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