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The Senator Tree is gone

Started by Mooseherder, January 17, 2012, 07:06:41 AM

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Burlkraft

Doesn't look like there was any salvagable material from that one.

What a shame.
Why not just 1 pain free day?

Magicman

It looked like a terrible loss.   :-\
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

zopi

But, it is a cypress...if they let it, it will likely resprout.
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And lots of junk.

Den Socling

It burned like a chimney. It's sad to see the loss of this giant after 3500 years of survival. If trees could talk..........

Chuck White

A shame for sure!  :'(

Maybe there would be enough for some rustic benchs for the park or maybe a mantle for the State House!

Surely there would be some material that could be sawed out!
~Chuck~  Cooks Cat Claw sharpener and single tooth setter.  2018 Chevy Silverado and 2021 Subaru Ascent.
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Den Socling

Chuck, have you ever seen a chimney fire? In a tree that size, it would look like a shuttle solid booster pointed down!

zopi

That tree, with the life cycle of cypress, is probably alot older than that...it takes alot to kill one. I hope they let it come back if it will...just because the big trunk is gone. It would be a great snapshot of the continuity of life.
Got Wood?
LT-15G GO chassis added.
WM sharpener and setter
And lots of junk.

ellmoe

  It was an impressive tree, but like  almost all "huge" cypress in Fla., it was hollow. The're here today because they were hollow back when the virgin forest was logged. If they had been solid they would have been cut then.      It definitely would have made a good chimney!

Mark
Thirty plus years in the sawmill/millwork business. A sore back and arthritic fingers to prove it!

beenthere

ellmoe
That explains the estimate of its age, and that it cannot be verified now that the tree torched.
Don't like to lose the old ones, but that happens.
south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

Magicman

We had a couple of old White Oak trees on our place that were well over 6' DBH.  Hollow as gourds.  Turkeys loved to roost on them and no telling what all lived inside of them.  Like the Senator, they are gone now.   :-\
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

ellmoe

Quote from: beenthere on January 18, 2012, 10:12:13 PM
ellmoe
That explains the estimate of its age, and that it cannot be verified now that the tree torched.


   It's impossible at this time to age cypress trees anyway,  thay will "lay down" multiple rings per year. If my memory of the research is correct, it was found to be 4-12 rings per year. Now you can understand how these trees get to be reported as being so old. ::)

Mark
Thirty plus years in the sawmill/millwork business. A sore back and arthritic fingers to prove it!

Dodgy Loner

Quote from: ellmoe on January 19, 2012, 07:07:52 AM
Quote from: beenthere on January 18, 2012, 10:12:13 PM
ellmoe
That explains the estimate of its age, and that it cannot be verified now that the tree torched.


   It's impossible at this time to age cypress trees anyway,  thay will "lay down" multiple rings per year. If my memory of the research is correct, it was found to be 4-12 rings per year. Now you can understand how these trees get to be reported as being so old. ::)

Mark

To what "research" are you referring? False rings are usually pretty easy for a trained dendrochronologist to identify, and baldcypresses do not average anywhere near 4-12 rings per year. The age estimates of "The Senator" should be taken with a grain of salt, of course, since the tree was hollow, but the oldest reliably dated baldcypress was a specimen from North Carolina that was 1622 years old. So baldcypresses can get pretty old.
"There is hardly anything in the world that some man cannot make a little worse and sell a little cheaper, and the people who consider price only are this man's lawful prey." -John Ruskin

Any idiot can write a woodworking blog. Here's mine.

Magicman

I ain't proud.  I looked  :o   it up.  ;D

den·dro·chro·nol·o·gy (d n dr -kr -n l -j ). n. The study of climate changes and past events by comparing the successive annual growth rings of trees or old timber.
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

Warbird

Quote from: Den Socling on January 17, 2012, 11:41:44 AM
It's sad to see the loss of this giant after 3500 years of survival. If trees could talk..........

Reminded me of this song:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h9YWqjuJMkc


ellmoe

Quote from: Dodgy Loner on January 19, 2012, 12:30:54 PM
Quote from: ellmoe on January 19, 2012, 07:07:52 AM
Quote from: beenthere on January 18, 2012, 10:12:13 PM
ellmoe
That explains the estimate of its age, and that it cannot be verified now that the tree torched.


   It's impossible at this time to age cypress trees anyway,  thay will "lay down" multiple rings per year. If my memory of the research is correct, it was found to be 4-12 rings per year. Now you can understand how these trees get to be reported as being so old. ::)

Mark

To what "research" are you referring? False rings are usually pretty easy for a trained dendrochronologist to identify, and baldcypresses do not average anywhere near 4-12 rings per year. The age estimates of "The Senator" should be taken with a grain of salt, of course, since the tree was hollow, but the oldest reliably dated baldcypress was a specimen from North Carolina that was 1622 years old. So baldcypresses can get pretty old.

Dr. Kathy Ewell, U of Fla., approx. 1980  Published text on Cypress, also personal observations from known harvest period on copices and "seedlings".  Dr. Ewell's research determined they could not determine age even at microscope level.   Pretty specific, 1622 years, what was their technique, who reviewed them?

Mark
Thirty plus years in the sawmill/millwork business. A sore back and arthritic fingers to prove it!

terry f

     Looks like it was arson. Some meth head trying to get high.  Sad

SwampDonkey

Quote from: Magicman on January 19, 2012, 03:43:24 PM
I ain't proud.  I looked  :o   it up.  ;D

den·dro·chro·nol·o·gy (d n dr -kr -n l -j ). n. The study of climate changes and past events by comparing the successive annual growth rings of trees or old timber.

They've used it here to age red spruce trees over 400 years old. And not very big trees either. One I think was suppressed, but red spruce can survive in a closet I think, much like hemlock. ;)

Old dendrochronology thread

They also identified double rings.
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

Raider Bill

News here this morning said they made an arrest in the arson of this tree. Terry F is right they found Meth at her house.
The First 70 years of childhood is always the hardest.

Dodgy Loner

Quote from: ellmoe on January 19, 2012, 08:09:22 PM
Quote from: Dodgy Loner on January 19, 2012, 12:30:54 PM
Quote from: ellmoe on January 19, 2012, 07:07:52 AM
Quote from: beenthere on January 18, 2012, 10:12:13 PM
ellmoe
That explains the estimate of its age, and that it cannot be verified now that the tree torched.


   It's impossible at this time to age cypress trees anyway,  thay will "lay down" multiple rings per year. If my memory of the research is correct, it was found to be 4-12 rings per year. Now you can understand how these trees get to be reported as being so old. ::)

Mark

To what "research" are you referring? False rings are usually pretty easy for a trained dendrochronologist to identify, and baldcypresses do not average anywhere near 4-12 rings per year. The age estimates of "The Senator" should be taken with a grain of salt, of course, since the tree was hollow, but the oldest reliably dated baldcypress was a specimen from North Carolina that was 1622 years old. So baldcypresses can get pretty old.

Dr. Kathy Ewell, U of Fla., approx. 1980  Published text on Cypress, also personal observations from known harvest period on copices and "seedlings".  Dr. Ewell's research determined they could not determine age even at microscope level.   Pretty specific, 1622 years, what was their technique, who reviewed them?

Mark

The age is specific because it is the oldest age that can be proven. The actual tree was older than that, but it is impossible to know how much older, because it is impossible to locate the tissue from the exact year that the tree germinated. The research is from the article "North Carolina climate changes constructed from tree rings" by Stahle, Cleaveland, and Hehr. Published in 1988 by Science, which I hear is a reputable journal ::).

I tried find the research papers by Dr. Kathy Ewell and was only able to find links to where you referenced her work on the Forestry Forum. Do you have more specific information about her publications?

It's a shame that an ancient tree was taken down by junkie :-\
"There is hardly anything in the world that some man cannot make a little worse and sell a little cheaper, and the people who consider price only are this man's lawful prey." -John Ruskin

Any idiot can write a woodworking blog. Here's mine.

Raider Bill

Apparently she [the meth head that started the fire] took pix of herself doing it. What a shame.
The First 70 years of childhood is always the hardest.

doctorb

Raider Bill-

Do you mean that she took pictures of herself getting high at the base of that tree, or that she lit the tree on fire on purpose and took pictures of herself doing it?

What a selfish, senseless act.  Just another great earthly treasure I'll never get to see.
My father once said, "This is my son who wanted to grow up and become a doctor.  So far, he's only become a doctor."

Raider Bill

Apparently she took pix of setting the tree on fire then bragged about it. They raided her house to take the camera and her PC found meth....
The First 70 years of childhood is always the hardest.

SwampDonkey

About the same thing happened to the albino sitka spruce, only the perpetrator was sober I think and used a chainsaw.  Might as well do it right. ::)
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

ellmoe


I tried find the research papers by Dr. Kathy Ewell and was only able to find links to where you referenced her work on the Forestry Forum. Do you have more specific information about her publications?

[/quote]
DL, I'm sure some research was published in Journals, but I was specifically referring to a book she published in about 1983. I left my copy at the ranch I was managing when I left. I suspect it was published by the U. of Fla. press, but can't swear to it. Mark
Thirty plus years in the sawmill/millwork business. A sore back and arthritic fingers to prove it!

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