New here, just getting started and needing advice!

roberts.isaiah · July 22, 2011, 12:49:39 PM

Hi everyone, just joined the forum and love all the information. Wanted to see if I could get some advice from you guys. Im a young, new landowner and have 100 acres of forest land as well as bout 10 acres of fields. I want to get either a tractor with a logging winch or a bulldozer with a forestry package. I'm not going to cut wood to make a living, just my own firewood, and pick away at the soft wood for some extra money when I'm home so I don't really want a skidder. I feel a tractor with winch, loader, and enough horsepower is a good idea because of all the different things I can use it for around my camp, but I also like the idea of a dozer with a winch because I want to make some roads throughout my land. I want to get one big enough for anything Id need it for. I found a Case 850 and 350 with winches on craigslist but how big of a dozer or tractor would you recommend? What are the best dozers/tractors to get for logging? What do you guys recommend? Any advice would be awesome!

Ron Scott · July 22, 2011, 12:58:21 PM

Also have a management plan completed by a professional forester for your 100 acres if you haven't already done so.

Raider Bill · July 22, 2011, 12:59:20 PM

Welcome to the greatest forum on the web!
The experts will be along shortly to answer your questions.

Bro. Noble · July 22, 2011, 01:06:09 PM

We have used a 4WD 50 hp tractor with a winch on the back and forks on the front for about 15 years. Our timberland is mostly on hillsides. If I were to do it over, I would do the same. Even if you have level land, I would reccomend 4WD. fluid filled tires, and at least 45 hp. Be sure you get a utility style tractor with a low center of gravity.

I used to wish that we had a dozer, but with the high cost of machinery and repairs, I'm happy now to hire someone that has good equipment and the skill to operate it. If you have the skill, you might consider renting a dozer.

mad murdock · July 22, 2011, 01:25:48 PM

Bro. Noble has given you a very good tip. If you have a rental place near you, rent a dozer, then you can try it on for size, and fit, before you commit to buying something you don't want, then you can try a tractor as well. Whatever the case, you will not go wrong with a good sized 4wd (at least 45 hp) tractor and a Farmi, or other similar type winch. Ideally, a smallish dozer and a tractor/winch would give you all the versatility you will need to look after the 100 acre wood

Welcome to the Forestry Forum. You may want to look at mill options, since you have wood, you will be able to provide youself with your own lumber for all of the improvement projects you will need

Be careful though, they don't come with warnings, you will get the sawdust-in-veins disease! 8)

roberts.isaiah · July 22, 2011, 01:45:48 PM

Thanks for the advice so far! I've got a neighbor I used to do work for and have used his 35 horse Massey Ferguson tractor, it has a winch but I never used it. And I do like that. He said he'd sell it to me but do you think 35 hp 4x4 would be enough power? My land has some hills. Also, my dad has an old lag skidder, rubber tires with tracks, interesting machine. I've driven that but never had a chance to skid trees out with it either since he just got it fixed after sitting for a few years. I plan on buying more land in the future and also have family with land that I can cut.

mad murdock · July 22, 2011, 02:13:34 PM

yer dad's machine, is it a Bombardier? Would luv to see a pic of it(hint, hint). Sounds like the 35 HP would do for firewood, but if you are going to consider some real wood getting, I would go for your dad's machine. There is NO substitute for HP when it comes to dragging wood. My skidder is a smaller older one, but does remarkably well for it's size! Usually you can make do, just have to use the noggin' more and be smart about how one goes about it when HP is lacking. My skidder has a 59HP ford diesel in it. Dozers are good, but maintenance can be costly on the running gear, for that matter, tires aren't so cheap either, but usually require less $$ than steel tracks. If you are going to do a lot of road building, and dirt pushing, you will want to lean that direction, or as has been stated, rent one for the dirt work, or rent one with an operator

Madman_Mark · July 22, 2011, 04:48:52 PM

I used to own a 55 hp with a loader/bucket on front and a Farmi logging winch on back. It was the perfect setup. All the gear/saws can go in the bucket and the bucket adds alot more weight to the front to keep the front tires on the ground when hauling a heavy load. Get a tractor with a bucket and a winch and you'll be fine. Good luck.

snowstorm · July 22, 2011, 05:26:10 PM

Quote from: roberts.isaiah on July 22, 2011, 01:45:48 PM
Thanks for the advice so far! I've got a neighbor I used to do work for and have used his 35 horse Massey Ferguson tractor, it has a winch but I never used it. And I do like that. He said he'd sell it to me but do you think 35 hp 4x4 would be enough power? My land has some hills. Also, my dad has an old lag skidder, rubber tires with tracks, interesting machine. I've driven that but never had a chance to skid trees out with it either since he just got it fixed after sitting for a few years. I plan on buying more land in the future and also have family with land that I can cut.
[/quote ] is it an old international?? i have seen a couple of them. if it ruhs ok and the tracks are ok it would be as good or better than a dozer. any rocks down your way? if so a dozer is not the answer. washington or hancock county?

Autocar · July 22, 2011, 05:27:43 PM

Welcome aboard ! Being your in Maine I suppose the wood isn't real super big and your wanting to build trails I would get a 350 John Deer with a dozer blade and a winch with a logging arch that should do about everything you want to do. Good luck Bill

KBforester · July 22, 2011, 07:29:59 PM

Quote from: Autocar on July 22, 2011, 05:27:43 PM
Welcome aboard ! Being your in Maine I suppose the wood isn't real super big and your wanting to build trails I would get a 350 John Deer with a dozer blade and a winch with a logging arch that should do about everything you want to do. Good luck Bill

Yeah, especially since your in my neighborhood! Trees can't be too big, I'd say 35 hp is plenty. Look out for those clay soils though. 4wd is a must for them.

Maine372 · July 22, 2011, 09:38:05 PM

i have logged extensively with a tractor and would reccomend it over a dozer for the simple fact you can do more with it. it will get from point a to point be faster, it can run more implements, you can run it down the road if you have to and you dont need to hire somone with a big trailer to move it for you.

when it comes to choosing a tractor consider that you are taking it in the woods. look for things that are in vulnerable places. definately consider a canopy and some extra gaurding. 35hp will pull downeast fir and larch all day long. if you get into bigger pine and hemlock you will probably want to get into the 50-60hp range. that being said i made a living logging mostly pine in the midcoast area with a 40hp machine. you just have to learn the limitations of the machine. the machine i used had agricultural tires the treads are deeper but they arent very tough tires. if i did it again i would get industrial tires. the treads arent as deep but there are more plys and they will take the abuse in the woods a little better. if traction is an issue chain up.

WildDog · July 23, 2011, 04:23:49 AM

Hi and welcome.

With a 100 acres, you may run out of uses for a dozer pretty quick, my advice would be to buy a 4wd tractor and hire a dozer, either dry or with operator for the heavy work. Massey 35's are great little tractors, we have had a couple for spraying, slashing, post digging and PTO belt pully setup to run pumps and sheep jetting gear (never had a FEL on one) If you bought your neighbours 35hp my guess is you'd be chasing more Hp pretty quickly.

thecfarm · July 23, 2011, 05:20:05 AM

Welcome to the forum. I have a 40hp Ford 4wd with a loader,fluid in the tires,3 pt winch.Been since 92 I've been working it in the woods. It does a great job,even on those pine that are 3 feet across. Really starting to show it's age and all of the work I've done with it. A smaller tractor will do it,but just take more time. I will have to replace my 40hp with another tractor in a year. Will try to find a used one,but hard to find just what I want too.Will the neighbor let you borrow the tractor for a day to see if you like it? Get those tire loaded and you will do alot better in the woods. Deep tread tires,AG I think,are a must. Those 4plys won't hold up in the woods,so when they go,put the 8 plys to it.

windy hill farm · July 23, 2011, 08:00:01 AM

Welcome, I'am pretty new here to, but been in the same situation I have a 60hp NH 4 wheel drive a must with a farmi winch great set up. Most of the wood I pull is less than 20" dbh. So I can skid 4 tree length logs out at a time without a problem. Just remember your tractor isn't a dozer. I blew a rear tire last summer using my tractor to clear a food plot, pushing small trees over I got lazy and left my brush hog on and caught a stump through the side wall, $900.00 later I learned my lesson. Had a dozer finish up my food plot yesterday. What he did in a couple of hours was well worth it. One thing get some good trails or roads and you will spend a lot more time in your woodlot. One last thing someone mentioned a mill, I just bought a LT25G28 two weeks ago and its a blast. Kevin

snowstorm · July 23, 2011, 08:44:34 AM

so is it an old international tracked skidder that your father has? rubber tires 3 to a side with steel tracks over them? there was 2 around here . also knew a old timer that ran one when it was new. said it rode well great in the snow and worked pretty good as a dozer.

roberts.isaiah · July 23, 2011, 08:57:32 AM

I'm in Washington County around Machias and Jonesobor. I'm not quite sure what make the lag skidder is. I won't be home for a month but when I do get home i'll take some pics of it and post them on here. It is a pretty neat little machine and he hasn't put many hours on it at all as it was broken for a few years. The tracks look a little worn out though. I gotta try to convince him to let me use it some this winter to haul some logs out! Everyone seems to be going with the tractor but from what i've found on craigslist and such, a 45-60 hp tractor with a bucket and then buying a farm winch and chains isn't going to be cheap. Found some pretty nice deals on dozers though. Another neighbor of mine has a 50hp Long tractor with a loader for sale, don't know to much about the brand though. Any body have any info on them? I do have a lot of old logging trails that i've opened up already so Ive got decent roads already to haul the logs out. I do plan on getting a saw mill as soon as i have the extra money. Thanks again for all the advice

Maine372 · July 23, 2011, 09:09:15 AM

sounds crazy but dont rule out buying a new tractor. when the machine in the picture was purchased we got a better deal through deere financing (0 down and 0 financing for a couple years) than we could get for a used machine at a bank or credit union.

also shop around different dealers even for the same brand. by shopping at two dealers we basically got the winch for free.

Banjo picker · July 23, 2011, 09:31:53 AM

You will get more use out of the 4x4 tractor...I have both and the dozer sits there with weeds growing up around it..I have used it to pull a couple of big trees out of the creek...but I have built a winch and it would do the trick now...My dozer is a 850 Case...if you are looking at a 350 Case they are tiny little things...I would surely take a tractor over it...You will need the 4 x 4 on the tractor because with a heavy load on the front end you can still get some traction if the rears come up a bit....I almost made the mistake of not getting 4 wheel drive...it would have been traded by now if I had...Tim

Hans1 · July 23, 2011, 10:08:14 AM

I would go with the tractor for sure. The thing to remember is there are no good deals on dozers you pay more when you buy for one in good shape or pay to fix the other later. I currently have a 56 hp tractor and am shopping for a winch. I also have a JD 850 dozer and have spent almost 10,000 in repairs in the last 3 years . If you do go the dozer route get someone who understands undercarrige wear to look at it it will be money well spent. Good Luck with the project.

roberts.isaiah · July 23, 2011, 12:34:53 PM

It might be an old international, it has 3 rubber tires with a track. Small machine but i'm sure it works well. He picked it up from a guy in Addison who had used it for quite a few years. I haven't ruled out buying a new tractor yet but i'm not sure I want to spend that much for a 45-60 hp tractor right now. There are a lot of 0%, 0% financing deals around though. I found 450 Case with a winch on craigslist, not sure how big that would be or how powerful it is. Whichever route i'm going I plan on getting someone who knows a lot about either to go with me. I certainly don't know the first thing about dozers or tractors. I think its time to start learning though!

Ron Scott · July 23, 2011, 12:43:31 PM

Yes, definitely go with a 4 wheeled drive tractor as a minimum. There's a reason why commercial loggers have gone to rubber tired skidders over crawlers of years past. Crawlers can always be rented for the minimum use that you might have for one, unless you are also into theland clearing, earth moving, and excavation business.

One of my larest timber producers (recent photos in the Timber Equipment and Harvest Methods Thread) also has two crawlers, but just rented a crawler that was closer to the job site so he wouldn't have to transport one of his a further distance. We were just closing out a timber harvest contract and had to grade out some excessive rutting on a wet access road section due to the heavy rains we encounted this spring and early summer. A crawler was needed for this 2 hour job, but the rest of the timber harvest was all done on rubber tires.

Crawlers are also a lot harder on the soil and landscape.

chevytaHOE5674 · July 23, 2011, 01:47:45 PM

I have both and the dozer is great for building roads and pushing dirt around. Also nice around the farm for various jobs. On occasion I use it in the woods to twitch a few trees. But it is slow, bumpy, expensive to repair, and did I mention slow. Also driving long distances is very hard on the under carriage.

That said my tractors see 100x more use per year than the dozer. They are very easy to operate, can navigate to and from places quickly (and you can drive them on the road). Also you have the option to run hundreds of attachments on the back (winch, brush hog, post hole digger, snow blower, hay baler, etc).

If I had to chose one piece of equipment it would be the tractor hands down. The dozer is handy for certain jobs but its practicality is very limited.

Also a "cheap" dozer will end up costing you thousands if the undercarriage is shot, or if there is any issues with the clutches or final drives.

Banjo picker · July 23, 2011, 10:34:32 PM

I have already had a say, but you said you might get a mill someday..a tractor is mighty handy around a mill...dozer not so much....Tim

thecfarm · July 24, 2011, 04:53:47 AM

How big are the trees you want to haul out? Your land real hilly? I'm retired now and probably will have to buy another tractor. We have a 30hp NH that we use just to mow with and snow blow the driveway. My 40 hp can do ALOT more than the 30hp,but money will come into the finally say. I'm kinda thinking of a smaller tractor. Most of the big trees are all cut now so I could get by with a smaller tractor,even though I would not want too.
By the way look under the tractor too. Some brands are putting the hyd filter kinda low and the hook up for the loader too. I feel right in the way for a rock or a high stump or a good size branch to do some damage to them.