Got a job doing everything I was taught not to do

[Offthebeatenpath]

I worked for a couple weeks recently in the White Mountains of NH where we were hired to fill in a bunch of tributaries with woody debris.  We felled and winched tops and boles into the stream beds, purposely tangling and wrapping them together in all directions.  The "science" behind it is that the woody material will slow the water down, create pools and drops for fish habitat, mitigate erosion by creating sediment traps, and in places make the water jump the stream bed and help recreate some floodplain forest ecosystems.

All I could think was "This goes against everything I was taught as a logger!" I'm interested to hear what other folks here think about it.

I posted a few photos- the first is a before and after.


 

  

  

 

[enigmaT120]

They do that here in Oregon.  I wouldn't say they "fill in" streams, but they create log jams in places, basically, to do what you said.  I guess when streams don't have that stuff they tend to flood and wash out the gravel that fish spawn in.  They usually want pretty big logs though.  And yeah, a few decades ago they thought clear streams were better.  I don't know the reasoning behind that. 

[BradMarks]

It's the new/old way of doing things.  Even though the structure of the streambed (creek out here) is different than what we normally see out here, the concept is the same.  Difference is bigger creeks, bigger logs for placement and huge boulders lashed with cable and placed in the waterways.  Often times, heliocopters do the placement of the "debris".  And yes, not that many years ago, all debris was taken out of the waterways. 

[loggah]

Were you at Hubbard brook ? they been using that experimental forest area for years. Don

[Offthebeatenpath]

I think even a bit closer to you Don.  Tributaries of the Beebe River in Campton and Sandwich- mostly off the Sandwich Notch Road. We only worked in Sandwich this year, but the Tin Mountain Conservation Center got a grant to treat 75,000 lineal feet of streams over the next five years or so.

[loggah]

well my house and land are on the Beebe river, dont be mudding up my river!! Oh wait its kind of flooding down back at the moment !!!! ;D you must be working off the old railroad grade that went to flat mtn. or maybe you will be heading in from Bennet st .in Sandwich. seems like the forest industry,with its actions keeps trying to reinvent itself. what was good,wasn't good,now its coming full circle again???? ??? ???

[4x4American]

Interesting...

[beenthere]

Just boggles the mind what our "State departments" and "Fed. services" can dream up to spend the taxpayers money. Nothing that some common sense and "leave it alone" can't do on their own, IMO. 

Neighbor had to spend extra dollars after a small timber sale (two single axle truck loads) when the "inspector" found some fallen branches in his old non-eroded ditch that would only see some slight pooling of water after a snow melt.
But he learned that now it has been classified as a "navigable stream" by someone apparently looking at a topo map in a Gov't office. Used to be a "navigable stream" was one that could float a canoe. Now apparently all that has changed.

[Ianab]

From my casual interest in local freshwater fish, I can see what they are trying to do.

Where do you find the fish in those small forest streams? Under fallen logs and messes of branches. Places where pools and natural weirs form.

In an unmanaged forest, some trees and branches naturally fall into the stream beds, just law of averages. But in a managed forest, where loggers have been told to keep tops out of the stream at all cost, you end up with a very different situation, and have changed the whole dynamic of the stream.

You might look at a little stream, that you can step across without getting your boots wet, and assume nothing lives in there. It's too small for trout and salmon etc. But there are probably dozens of smaller species of fish, freshwater crays and other inverts in there.

Stuff that just LOVES a log jam to live under.

[Offthebeatenpath]

Ian- You're right on with the intent of the project.  I visited a site where this sort of operation was done a few years ago and there were many more pools and sediment traps.  The fish population was increasing steadily and more trout were spawning farther upstream.

This project is actually being done in conjunction with a few groups- non profits, universities, etc. who are doing a bunch of different analyses over time- carbon in the water, fish populations, habitat change in the floodplain, overall water quality, etc.  And you can rest assured BeenThere- there's no taxpayer dollars involved.

Don- I can't promise that we won't negatively affect your backyard, but the projects thus far seem to indicate that the water will be clearer and the fish more abundant...

We are working in areas that have been logged numerous times and the practice of hauling out all woody debris that lands in/near a waterway is one of the things that may be reevaluated.  Just like fire suppression, it seems that best management practices change with time and new data. It might just make the logger's job a bit easier if this idea continues to catch on...

[CCC4]

My area where I live is known for some of the top trout fisheries in the country. We have several streams and rivers where natural spawning occurs...the rest of the trout are raised in hatcheries and dump 1.5 million fish a year. Lately efforts provided by several fly fishing commisions...non Gubment funded...have been setting up tributary streams with log jams, gravel benches, large boulders and such and placing trout eggs in beds hoping to have them come back and spawn when mature. Some of the waterfalls are really elaborate and the trout are actually using them as ladders just like salmon do...pretty neat actually to watch! I have sat with my Son for hours just hoping to see them jump, right when you about give up...POP! right up the waterfall one will go.

[beenthere]

Offthebeatenpath

And you can rest assured BeenThere- there's no taxpayer dollars involved.

??  what is the source of the grant money you mentioned?  I'm interested to learn more.

[CCC4]

beenthere,

The funding for such projects in my area are from mostly wealthy Doctors, Lawyers, building contractors, etc. Their group is called "Friends of the river" or "Friends of the White River". The contribute a ridiculous amount of funding even towards the hatcheries.

[Gearbox]

So loggah when you go fishing next spring leave the blasting stuff at home so you don't muddy up the water . Oh wait they want deep holes  . Gearbox

[Offthebeatenpath]

Beenthere,

CCC4 is right- there are some"Friends" groups involved, a local non profit conservation center, a 501c3 organization called the Conservation Fund, Trout Unlimited, and a bunch of dedicated volunteers.

[thecfarm]

Is there any water in that "stream"?? Must be now with that rain we just had.

[terry f]

  Done a little different here in Oregon like said, but the same idea. Non-profits and the state are buying up large ranches and timberland to improve water quality, access for hunting and fishing, and just better all round land management than a rancher who has to try to make a profit in everything he does.

[loggah]

Before the rain yesterday you could walk across the river out back,water about 10 ft across and up to my ankles,10 hrs later water  about 8 feet higher, this water gets so warm every year ,that the trout are only in the deeper pools.

[Peter Drouin]

When I was 16 I spent a lot of time at Flat Mtn Pond. Went in from Bennet St, I guy lives there . Gunner was his name let me park my truck there. One day I was going around to the back side of the pond, and came up to a very old man on the trail. I stopped and we talked for a while. Then He asks me if I was thirsty? ya I said, He says back a step or two, I did and he knelt down and reach under some moss in a hole. Came out with a cannon jar fild with ice cold water.
I was standing on a spring right in the trail. Told me to put the jar back when done, And walked away and disapered.

[kensfarm]

We have beavers here in MD that do the exact same thing.  I remember one place we did some target shooting at.. the beavers had been there for a while.. they had built dam after dam.. on down this valley.. flooding lots of land.  Being a young kid.. I was amazed to see all the fish swimming around the flooded forest..  water was so clear.. made it easy to see them. 

I get a beaver on the creek here..  they've never done much tree damage.. they def. can make some big wood chips w/ those teeth. 

[quilbilly]

Stump hauling is a big deal in the pnw. Lots of fisheries money for pulling out 20ft logs roots n all and hauling them to salmon streams. Trust me millions in federal and state fish money out here. A lot of non profit organizations get their money from federal grants.

[loggerman1959]

Cut a softwood job up here in Northern New York where the state wanted all the tops left as they hit the ground . just drop , top and skid . The idea was to create habitat for the rabbits . I don't know if it worked , but it was the easiest job I ever cut !!!!

[ga jones]

You guys ever see what those (log jambs) do to bridges miles down stream when the floods come?? It ain't pretty

[sealark37]

These people are creating ponds on creeks that a beaver would not even stop at for lunch.  Years ago the gov set about dredging every little stream to provide more crop and pasture land.  Having seen how destructive that was, the gov is trying to make every spring drain "navigable" so that they can deny it's use to the landowner.  The federal courts recently put that effort on hold.   Regards, Clark