What blade to use on a Woodmizer band mill

[redneckman]

Hello T.F.F,
I am going to start a conversation on band mill blades.  I know there are probably thousands of these in the forum.  But, I know there are new blades being added to the market every day, so I wanted to get the most up to date opinions.

First of all, I wanted to say thanks to the people who responded to a post I did a few years ago on which band mill to purchase.  I had a lot of people that said they love the orange one.  So, after a lot of research and talk, I purchased a Wood mizer LT 50 wide.  I grew up around old circle mills, namely Frick's and Meadows.  Learning all the bells and whistles on my new mill has been a little challenging, but I am getting through it.  I currently have about 20 hours on the mill.  I have been SUPER careful not to bump the adjustable guide against the log, but even at that I have bumped it lightly a few times.  >:(  Over all, I am happy with it.  I am sure with time, I will fall in love.

The Woodmizer guys in NC sold me some 10 degree blades for my mill when I picked it up.  In poplar or pine, they work great.  However, I was sawing some white oak (nothing massive 10-16" range) and I noticed that my cuts are WAVY.  I checked the tension, and it was between 2800-3000 psi.  I slowed my speed way down, and I even changed to a new blade.  Once, the blade dove so bad that it almost made a bowl.  But, most of it you can look down the board and the cut rises and falls between 1/8 -1/4" of the saw line.  I did some preliminary checking on the alignments, and nothing was really off.

I was wondering if these wood mizer blades are any good?  I know Cooks claims to sell a great blade.  The blades that I have been running are  the Double Hard 1 1/4 wide, 10 degree .045.  I saw mostly poplar, oak, and some pine in NC.  Here, it does not get cold enough to freeze logs hard.  What would you guys suggest I run?  would going to a thicker 1.5" blade help the issue?  BTW, My mill is a 47 HP diesel.

[POSTON WIDEHEAD]

I have been running nothing but 4° for years.
I just upgraded to a 35.9 hp diesel.

I still run the 4° but quickly learned with the hp I have the Turbo7 blade is GREAT in Pecan, Hickory and all Oaks.
This works for me.

I would stay with the 1-1/4 blade.....it will last longer. The bigger blade will heat up quicker and won't stay sharp as long.
I run my PSI at 3500. 3,000 is probably plenty.



.....And yes......for ME....A Woodmizer blade is the best.

[redneckman]

I was just looking at WM website.  I do not see a Turbo blade.  Is it listed under something else? 

Thanks for the insight.  I really appreciate it.

[POSTON WIDEHEAD]

I was just looking at WM website.  I do not see a Turbo blade.  Is it listed under something else? 

Thanks for the insight.  I really appreciate it.

It's not on there yet. Call them and ask them you'd like to try one and they will ship you a free Turbo 7

[PAmizerman]

You couldn't give me a box of 10* bands. Been running nothing but turbo 7 on my 42hp diesel.
From what I've seen cooks claims to have the best of everything. I've never used anything from cooks.

[redneckman]

Perfect.  Thank you very much.  I was about to think my mill will not cut straight lumber.

[redneckman]

You couldn't give me a box of 10* bands. Been running nothing but turbo 7 on my 42hp diesel.
From what I've seen cooks claims to have the best of everything. I've never used anything from cooks.

Yep, I get that feeling too.  I called them the other day to talk about their blades and the first thing they told me was that I needed to cut off my guides and buy a new set of their roller guides and weld them on my brand new mill.  I sort of find it hard to believe that WM would not know how to make a set of guides that would cut good lumber? :D

[POSTON WIDEHEAD]

There has been a lot of blade debates on the FF and it really boils down to what works best for each individual.

I have never used any other blade except Woodmizer.
So I can only give my opinion on the Woodmizer blade which I love on my Woodmizer mill.

I ship my blades back to them and they clean, inspect, replace if needed and sharpen them.
Fits my business like a glove.

[POSTON WIDEHEAD]

Yep, I get that feeling too.  I called them the other day to talk about their blades and the first thing they told me was that I needed to cut off my guides and buy a new set of their roller guides and weld them on my brand new mill.  I sort of find it hard to believe that WM would not know how to make a set of guides that would cut good lumber?

I have learned this from other post and have come up with this.
It is a good idea to keep a record of who you talk to, the time and date and what you talked about.
This COULD be very helpful if the wrong information was given to you.
This will help you when you talk to ANY company.

[POSTON WIDEHEAD]

A box of 15 Turbo 7"s are $358.00

[redneckman]

Yeah, I have the person's name.  She was nice, and was trying to help me.  I think she was just going off what she had been told.  I was born at night, but not last night.  I know a lot of people cuts fine lumber everyday with WM guide systems.

Thanks for the info on the T7 blade.  I will call WM tomorrow and get one to try out.

[PAmizerman]

I too have only used wm bands and use the resharp program. I've been happy with the turbos the most so far. I saw 99% hemlock but just sawed over 2000 bf of ash with good results.

[Southside]

I don't know what to say.....Posthole is suggesting Turbos, what's next - suggesting delete kits?  Are cats and dogs going to start living together now?

Redneckman - you might be scratching your head about now, but the others get it, hang around long enough and you will too.

Personally I have gone to Turbo's for just about everything.  I will use 10's on cedar and poplar, I don't even bother with regular 7's and the few 4's I have are only for frozen wood, and I mean frozen solid as in portable jobs to the north.  I was exactly where you are and called Marty asking him what I was doing wrong.  He said to try the turbos, but only if I liked to saw fast, pretty sure he said they are "not for old men" meaning you need to keep your head speed up with these or they will get warm on you even with the lube on. 

[terrifictimbersllc]

I use 1-1/4 0.045 WM blades only, have 42 HP.

4 degree bands and white oak were made for each other.   No clearer match between any wood with any blades I use.

I haven't tried the turbo 7s.  These are also called 7/39 (39 being the back angle).  I also use 7/34, 9/29, and 10/30.  I will probably buy my first turbos this year. 

If you haven't, get yourself a 10x hand lens, and look at the tips of any blades not cutting right.  Usually I see a thin bright band across the tip of the tooth, or a point of light on the outside edge of the set teeth, indicating dullness.

[redneckman]

I don't know what to say.....Posthole is suggesting Turbos, what's next - suggesting delete kits?  Are cats and dogs going to start living together now?

Redneckman - you might be scratching your head about now, but the others get it, hang around long enough and you will too.

South side, I appreciate your words of comfort.  You are right, it is confusing.  What you are saying does make some sense to to.  I used the 10 degree blades that I have in poplar, and they saw  good.  I have noticed a little diving and rising, but it is acceptable.  I sawed some pine and it sawed beautiful.  Would it be a good rule of thumb to say that the higher the hook angle, the softer the wood?  For example, for very dense hardwoods, use a 4 degree.  For most other hardwoods like oak and poplar, use a 7, and for softwoods like pine, use a 10?  If so, this brings me to another question; how do you guys keep up with all these different blades?  Can you tell what  the hook angle is by looking at it?

[redneckman]

So, I called WM today and spoke with a very nice lady.  She is going to send me a .055 Turbo 7 to try out.  I am looking forward to getting it.  Thanks everyone for your input and advice on this.

One more question, when you send your blades back for re-sharpening, do you coil them into a circle, or do you use the same box that they came in new?  My box already looks bad.  I was wondering if anyone has every thought of making a lightweight wooden box to ship these in?  The guys in Albemarle told me to ship them back in the original box, but like I said mine is in bad shape.

[POSTON WIDEHEAD]

So, I called WM today and spoke with a very nice lady.  She is going to send me a .055 Turbo 7 to try out.  I am looking forward to getting it.  Thanks everyone for your input and advice on this.

One more question, when you send your blades back for re-sharpening, do you coil them into a circle, or do you use the same box that they came in new?  My box already looks bad.  I was wondering if anyone has every thought of making a lightweight wooden box to ship these in?  The guys in Albemarle told me to ship them back in the original box, but like I said mine is in bad shape.

I send my blades to Georgia Woodmizer.
I coil them up and put 1 tie wire around each blade.
I thing the box is a 18 x18 x 20 high.
Once you send them they will ship them back coiled up in "THEIR" box and they will replace the box as needed.
Woodmizer Albemarle does a really good job sharpening blades but I don't like my blades flat packed, I like them coiled so I can take them out of the box and hang them up.
Plus the flat box gets all banged up and destroyed.

Call the Newnan,  Georgia Woodmizer and they will send you some shipping stickers. Just coil your blades, put your shipping sticker on and drop the box off at you closest FEDEX/UPS shipping place. After that are sharpened they will ship them right to your home or mill address.
Their phone number is 770-251-4894

[redneckman]

Thanks.  That is some good info, and I will take your adivce.

[ncsawyer]

You'll notice a big difference going with the thicker band.  I run 4° by 0.055 on everything and have good results, but there are still some hard grained white oak logs that just don't like to be cut.  Butt cuts where there is a lot of compaction of the wood and stress can be particularly challenging.  If you have a piece that just doesn't want to cut, turn it around and cut from the other end.  This will usually help. 

You will notice that the thicker blades do not flex as easily and will not give you the same life as the thinner blades.  Since they don't flex as well, they will not be able to travel around the band wheels as many times before they break.

Good luck with the new blades.

[Southside]

Conventional logic is as you stated regarding angle and wood hardnesses, personally I am just using up what I have left for 10's when they break or can't be sharpened then they get replaced with turbos.  WM has a gauge for $15 you can get which identifies the hook angle, they can throw it into your box when returning sharp bands. to you.

[Magicman]

If you need an 18X18 box go by your U-Haul store.  They sell them for a couple of bucks.

[redneckman]

Magicman, I have read a bunch of your posts.   I just wanted to say that when I am 74, I hope to be doing the exact same thing as you are doing. How long have you been sawing?  Your response to my question about which mill to buy a few years ago went along way in my decison to buy a WM. 8)  Thanks for your input.  I am sure I will be asking for your expertise in the future.

[SawyerTed]

Redneckman, I just spent several hours at Woodmizer Carolina today.

During that time I talked with their blade sharpening guy.  After spending between 30 and 45 minutes discussing blades, I decided on the 4 degree, .045 x 1 1/4" blades because they are intended for cutting hardwoods.  Of course your blade thickness and width may be different.

Basically, the 7 or 4 degree blades will cut about what you want.  Horsepower plays a role as well.  Turbo 7 is for above 25 hp according to the blade guy there.  My saw is 25 hp so I selected the the 4s.

As close as you are, a ride down to Albemarle and a talk with their blade guy might be worth it.

[Magicman]

Thank You Sir for your kind words but I had to look over my shoulder to see who you were speaking to. 

January began my 16th year sawing, but da ole man ain't what he once was.  Not even once what he ever was, but I keep trudging along.  Da ole feet hurt last week so Pat got me some "Gellin" insoles so I'll see if that's better. 

I was sawing Red/Black Oak this and last week and mostly used T7 blades.  I got into some bad dirty cull stuff this week and put some 10° blades on just to "use them up".  As they are rejected out Wood-Mizer ReSharp will replace them with T7's.  I do still have a stash of 4° blades for White Oak and very knotty SYP, for now anyway.

[POSTON WIDEHEAD]

As close as you are, a ride down to Albemarle and a talk with their blade guy might be worth it.

Good advice. You'll get to meet some nice people, see new and good used equipment and learn a lot about blades.

[PAmizerman]

I started out with a 18x18 box to send blades back to resharp. If I remember correctly I could only get 10 blades in the box? And it was bulky. I switched over to flat packs and get fifteen in a box. They take up less room and I just take them out as needed. I have them on a shelf in my shed and Mark the side of the box as to what's in it. ( Dull, turbo, 7* ect) that way I don't have to pull all the boxes down and check to see what's in each one. When I had bad boxes I'd just make one. I'd get a piece of cardboard that is used for covering 4x8 sheets of plywood from my dad. He builds kitchens and always has a pile of it. Then when I got them back they were in a new box. Or if it wasn't too bad I'd just tape it up good. Hope this helps

[Southside]

@Magicman if you have not tried the Blu Emu stuff it might be worth looking into - my father in law strongly suggested it and I tried some - it works - and I don't stink!!!   :D :D 

Well - not from that stuff anyway!

[Magicman]

Well I had to Google dat stuff.    :P

[WV Sawmiller]

   I don't have near the hp you do with your mill but I use the 4 degree double hards for any hard wood like oak or ash and also in soft wood like pine or spruce with plenty of knots. I use the 10 degree for poplar and a few 7's I have for poplar. As I wear them out I will replace all with 4 degree. I can cut everything with the 4's but only soft, clear wood with the 10s.


 
This is the kind of boxes I made to store and transport my blades. I think it is 34X36 inches made from 1X1 strips and thin cut pine or poplar siding. With a wide mill and longer blades you'd need something a little bigger I suspect. I carry my spare belts (B57, drive, power feed, etc) in with the blades. I send my blades back for resharp in the flat pack boxes.

[redneckman]

WV Sawmiller, that is exactly what I was thinking about making.  Great job!

[Rob in NC]

i just ordered a box of 4s for a pile of oak ive got on the deck but I looked hard at the turbo 7s from all the hoopla ive heard about them. I don't know if my 25hp will give me the same performance with them as the people that rave about them are using though.

[Southside]

You and I have the same mill, same year.

[Magicman]

When the 7° Turbos were developed the recommendation was that they be used with the higher horse power and Diesel engines.

[redneckman]

I have a .055 T7 on the way.  I cant wait to get it.  I have a oak that is 36" across on one end that I am goign to test it on.

[xlogger]

I'm going to try going to all 4°. Just order a box of Kasco, Richard suggested going to .045 I hope they don't break too fast. I was having problems with blades breaking after about 3 sharpening now I'm getting up to 10 or more since I got the new sharpener. If they break too fast I'll sure go back to .042 or just save them for those hard to saw logs.

[jhollora]

Very timely discussion for me.  Just picked up my Wood-Mizer LT 50 yesterday (graduating from an LT 15).  
My experience with 10 degree and 4 degree mirrors what others have shared. I mostly saw oak, hickory and locust....prefer the 4 degree.
I'm afraid WM will be getting a call for another Turbo 7 sample blade!

[Chuck White]

Welcome to the Forestry Forum, jhollora!

[redneckman]

Very timely discussion for me.  Just picked up my Wood-Mizer LT 50 yesterday (graduating from an LT 15).  
My experience with 10 degree and 4 degree mirrors what others have shared. I mostly saw oak, hickory and locust....prefer the 4 degree.
I'm afraid WM will be getting a call for another Turbo 7 sample blade!

First of all, welcome to the forum!  I got my sample T7 this week.  I have not yet tried it out, but I have some big oak logs that I plan to saw soon.  If the T7 preforms well, I will be ordering a case soon.

[Kwill]

Has anyone tried the WM max flex blades?

[woodmills1]

2005 LT70 62HDDR, I have only used 1.5" 7 degree blades and I sharpen them  4 times then reset them and sharpen them over and over till they break or hit metal.  This has worked very well for me, cutting both pine and oak.  If the universe is aligned I cut the pine when the blades are new or when they are fresh reset.  This machine will cut oak I swear using the back of a blade :D.  If I looked correctly I could not sharpen the turbos on my older drag sharpener.  I buy a box of ten when I get a large cutting order for pine.  I currently have 12 blades left of the 15 I reset recently in their final rotation, that is sharpen till they fail.  I have 22 blades that need to be reset before sharpen and use.

[redneckman]

Well, I tried out the T7 blade today in a 20" red oak.  WOW, what a difference!  It sliced through it like butter. The cut was flat, and straight.  I am VERY impressed.

I also want to mention a design issue that I found on my mill.  On the idler side, I have been noticing the paint begining to get gone on the inside of the blade guard, directy under the idler wheel.  I thought it was me scratching it when I was repalcing blades.  I am always as careful as possible, but WM does not give you much room.  Knicking the mast and the guards with the blades is a definite.  I was doing my 20 hr service on the mill yesterday.  I took the belts off the wheels to clean them.  The belt on the idler side was VERY hard to get between the idler wheel and the guard at the bottom.  Upon inspection, I noticed teeth marks in the metal under the idler.  I think the teeth of the blade has been knicking the guard.  That would explain why a brand new 10 degree blade cut like crap in a piece of poplar.  Below are some pictures that I took.   I think WM needs to build in some more tolerance.  If the tension gets below 3000 psi, the blade bounces a little, and it was hitting that guard.  A 50k+ dollar peice of equipment with only 20 hrs should not be doing this.  All I will say is that I solved the issue and it cut great with the T7.   Makes me wonder what else may be hiding its ugly face and maybe I should have bought another brand.  I am hoping someone from WM sees this.

 

[Chuck White]

Looks normal to me!

Sliding the belt between the shield and the wheel will, over time, wear the paint off, and so will the scratches from removing and installing blades!

A broken blade will make scratches all around inside of the blade shield, over time!

[dgdrls]

Congratulations on your LT purchase,  Those old Fricks and Meadows are a different cat than a WM band :D

I think between pulling bands on and off and tooth set, not hook angle, is causing those knick's,  perhaps a little vise-grip "bend" will offer a bit more room??

? Was there sawdust buildup under the band-wheel belt when you cleaned it?

best
D

[trapper]

if you are using b57 belts I find taking the slack out of the belt by pulling on the belt at 3 oclock  on the bandwheel gives more clearance and allows the blade to go on easier.

[Magicman]

If that edge of the blade guard is too close, it should be a simple matter to bend it downward. 

[redneckman]

Yep, it is fixed now.  Plenty of clearnce, and the blade goes on easier too.

[LeeB]

It is possible that the guard go bent by contacting something while you were sawing. I recently had to mine on a 20 year old mill. I figure it was tagging the log. 

[highleadtimber16]

My mill had the same thing from the factory. I took a piece of wood and a hammer, hit it a couple times and never looked at it again. Even with brand new machinery, there will sometimes be little things that aren't perfect. 

[Lawg Dawg]

Yep, it is fixed now.  Plenty of clearnce, and the blade goes on easier too.

Im having the same problem on my 40 Wide...how did you go about fixing it? Thanks

[redneckman]

I tried to bend it enough so it would not hit and the belt would come off without it sticking between the wheel and the guard, but bending that much seemed a wrong way to fix it.  I have a brand new plasma cutter and some Woodmizer matched paint.  I cut the guard back about 3" and painted the edge.  Looks like factory.  I hated to cut on my new mill, but it is mine and I am not going to fight with it every time I need to change a belt or a blade.  I am tired of dulling blades.  I will try to take a picture of how it looks and post it.

[Lawg Dawg]

I tried to bend it enough so it would not hit and the belt would come off without it sticking between the wheel and the guard, but bending that much seemed a wrong way to fix it.  I have a brand new plasma cutter and some Woodmizer matched paint.  I cut the guard back about 3" and painted the edge.  Looks like factory.  I hated to cut on my new mill, but it is mine and I am not going to fight with it every time I need to change a belt or a blade.  I am tired of dulling blades.  I will try to take a picture of how it looks and post it.

Thanks Redneckman, I'm having the exact same problem and its driving me crazy...I'm getting cuts like this with fresh out the box resharps T7s. Makes me think it's hitting the guard and knocking the set out of a tooth

[redneckman]

Before, I was cutting some poplar with a brand new 10 degree, and it waved at me on thie first cut.   I thought there was something wrong with my mill.  After I saw the issue, and gave it some clearance, I put on a new T 7 and cut these 18" wide red oak slabs.  Perfectly straight, and smooth.  I even picked up the saw speed some to see if these T7 blades are all that they are cracked up to be.  I was very impressed.  I also noticed a reduced amount of noise that that mill was making.  It did not "click" like it had been.  I bet there was less than 1/4" between the guard and the bottom of the wheel.  I think the click was the vibration of the blade hitting the guard. At 2800 psi on the blade, it flutters on my mill.  At 3000 it looks like a fine line.  As the blade stretches, I think the flutter was fitting the guard.  That 200 PSI makes alot of difference.  From now on, when I put on a new blade, I am going to set the tension, and turn the mill on and run it about 30 seconds and then re-set it.  That should help stretch the blade to what it is supposed to be.
 

 

 

[CCCLLC]

WM Maxflex worked well with my old 24 hp
 Lt 40. 9 degree hook and about 50percent longer life. Maybe 7 runs but I grind heavy. Sand is not my friend.
  Did I read "free sample"?

[CCCLLC]

Appreciate the heads up Redneckman.
 Similar problem on a new 40 wide. 

[redneckman]

Yep, I called WM and told them that I had heard that they would send a free sample of one of thier awesome blades.  The lady sent me a free t7 in a very nice packaged box.  But, I turned around and bought a whole box of t7's too.  So, it is like a free dog; it is not actaully free.

[redneckman]

Several of you guys asked me how I fixed the clearance issue on my mill.  I cut out about a 3" section of the blade guard with my plasma cutter.  Here are some photos.

 

 

 

[Lawg Dawg]

Several of you guys asked me how I fixed the clearance issue on my mill.  I cut out about a 3" section of the blade guard with my plasma cutter.  Here are some photos.

 

 

 

That looks very professional...I basically just used an adjustable wrench to hook on there and bent mine down about 1/2"...I also painted over the scratched, I mean gouged, surface so I could see if it was still hitting it. Saws much better now, I was getting frustrated with the rapid dulling blades on my brand new sawmill. Ive had mine since the first of the year, it has 160 hrs on it, and I ve sawn around 20,000 board feet with it.

[Dave Shepard]

Seems excessive when all it needed was a little tweak. 

[Peter Drouin]

Ya, retight the blade after a cut or two.