Used Timber Harvester ???

[sprucebunny]

I was looking at manual mills but they seem like a lot of work with no one to help  : So... I've found a used Timber Harvester 36 ( 1997 ) that I'm going to look at. I know about 6 of you have this brand and I was wondering if there was anything in particular that I should look at/for when judging the condition. It has the Deutz deisel which the owner says is loud and vibrates alot but that could be replaced ....right ???
What is the first thing you would check on this brand of mill ??? What do you like most about it compared to other mills with similar specifications ? What do you like the least ? What has needed the most maintainance ?
I'm a faithful reader of Sawmill Exchange and haven't found many mills that will cut 24' as this one will .... especially not in the East.
I will be cutting mostly spruce with it , if you have any comments on that ......
Thanks for your help ;D

[Haytrader]

I sure wouldn't buy a mill and then replace the engine. That is unless it was shot and the purchase price reflected it.
The diesel engine is a high percentage of the price of a mill.
If it is loud, it may be an exhaust issue and could be quieted down with a new or different muffler.  If it vibrates, it may have a bad harmonic balancer. Or, the engine mounts are worn, broken, or were not engineered correctly to start with. Since I am not familiar with that mill, it is hard to say. Could be floppy belts, incorrect idle speed (if this is when it vibrates), or maybe even a bad injector.

Now maybe some of the guys that own one of those mills that know what they are talking about will chime in.

;)

[Jason_WI]

If it is a Deutz air cooled then yes they are louder engines. Nothing wrong with them but you have to keep them clean cause when you smell burnt aluminum its too late....

Jason

[D._Frederick]

Sawmill and Woodlot Magazine has evaluated the Timber Harvester band sawmill and it has been at sawmill shootout a number of times. They give a good run down on this mill, get the back issues and read about them. I wouldn't be afraid of the Deutz diesel engine. With the air-cooled engines, you don't have the problem of blown head gaskets, and the pitted cylinders that water cooled engines have.

[Brad_S.]

Sprucebunny,

I've owned TH for 12 years now, am on my second machine from them. I'm a huge fan, but they have their quirks, as I'm sure all machines do.



You must be looking at the 21hp Duetz, as it has a reputation for being loud. TH only used those for a short period of time due to complaints about the noise. If your potential machine is a 36HTD though, I wouldn't think it would be the 21 hp. The newer mills use a 30 or 40 hp turbo which run much quieter.

Things I like about the machine is that it is fully hydraulic with no electric motors to burn out if you stall, I like the remote that lets you do other things while the head is sawing and carries the engine noise away from you, that it always cuts into the clean face and that it has a chain turner, although they can be underpowered when turning large logs and can dig them. Each machine is custom built when ordered, so you can get exactly what you want when you buy one new. I like that it's red. ;D I also firmly believe that it out performs all other machines in it's price class. I've done many jobs were the client had previously had someone with a different, well known brand of saw mill and they were blown away by the differences in capabilities. (I would like to think the sawyer had a roll in that as well. ;D)

I don't like the drag backs and the need to offset the controls to the side, and in fact deleted them when I ordered mine. There are some design flaws to look for. TH did a redesign of many features right around the year you are looking at, so I'll point out some of those. The TH user manual is rather poor. I personally am mechanically challenged, but since I live close to the factory, I just go bug them in person, I don't know how they respond to helping on the phone.

Here are things I'd look for in a used mill:

The gear box that raises the head had problems. It's located at the center of the very top of the machine. The old design had a brass worm gear held on by a single bolt that eventually breaks and allows the head to free fall. That's excitement you don't need! :D The new design has an enclosed box, as shown below.


Since your cutting spruce, the hardest wood there is to cut a straight line in with a band saw, hopefully it will have 25" band wheels. This will allow you to run heavier gage blades to improve stability. Again, you're right around the point in time where they went from 19" wheels to 25" wheels. That move greatly increased blade life. The blade guides should be cylindrical, not tapered, but if they are, as long as the blade is aligned to the bed, it is usable, but should be changed out soon. I'd be happy to talk you through an alignment if you PM me if you buy. Hopefully the owner upgraded to 1 1/2" blades, also increasing stability. If not, it's an easy retrofit. The wooden doors admittedly look cheap, but first time you throw a blade backing up too quickly, you'll see the thought that went into that decision ;)


The biggest wear item on a standard equipped machine is the drive cable. Hopefully the owner upgraded to a chain drive when he ordered it. It is not a retrofit-able item. (Here the chain is blocked by the carriage hold down because it is transport mode.)


The remote is wonderful as long as the switches are protected with boots. These weren't on earlier TH's and caused the switches to gum up and fail regularly. Easy to retrofit.


Again, somewhere around your time period, they switched from having the head travel up and down two chrome rods to four chrome rods. Add points if it has four, but two worked well on my old machine.

If I can answer any specific questions, let me know.

[twostroke_blood]

All things being equal, replacing an engine is no big thing if your getting a sweet deal on the mill. What kind of shape is the rest of the equipment in ? Just out of curiosity what type of automations does the mill have ? i.e log loader, hydrolic head, log turner, hydrolic dawgs.....?

[gary]

Sprucebunny  I just bought the same mill you are going to look at. There were two things i did not like
about it, they were the drag back system and the owners maneul. The drag back had me chaseing boards all over because they did not always come straight back and if you needed to back the blade out
they dug into what you were cutting. The owners manual was not very good.But i have called them a couple of times . They were very helpful. Told me what to look for when i told them my problem, they stayed on the phone while i went outside to the mill and looked at what they told me to ,came back told them what i saw then they told me what to do to fix my minor problems.  I removed the drag back in about 15 minutes, useing an allen wrench , ahammer and a punch . I really like the hydrolics.

[sprucebunny]

Thank you very much, Brad . That is a big help and just what I was hoping for ;D Thanks for taking the time to be so specific and the pictures ;D
Now I'll have some more intelligent questions to ask the owner before I go see it.

I think he said it was 25 hp and he also mentioned that the dragbacks didn't work well unless the end of the log was very clean/square cut .... that would be a nice feature to have work well  :-\
The band wheels must be 25" as the blade length is 200" as specified for the current model. He said he had the guides for 1 1/2" blades but they didn't work well for him ???
I'm going to reread your post and take notes ;D and call again.
Thanks again.

Thanks for the reassurances about the engine .... I'll check out the vibration issue when I see it....  ;)

So from Gary's post I'm guessing that the dragbacks ain't gonna work ??? I'm glad to know the manufacturer was helpful ;D

[sprucebunny]

Twostroke-blood
Most of the mills have all those things hydraulic

Here's a link  Here

[Brad_S.]

As long as you're asking him questions, ask these.

Has he ever had any problems with the main bearings? I never have, but after a post on WW saying I loved my TH, he e-mailed me and said he had nothing but problems with those bearings.

How often does he need to change the idler wheel (non powered bandwheel) bearings. My first mill only needed two sets in 8 years. My current one goes through them every 300 hours. I thought it was a bum fluke, but my new WW buddy complained about that too.

Check the belts on the band wheels when you test drive it. They are V-belts that are held in a groove in the wheel. When they wear, it can knock the set out of the blades or lose the crown and cause the blade to be thrown if too much lube is used. They are moderately easy to replace once you get a system figured out but the first time you try you'll use every word daddy ever washed your mouth out with soap for. :D

I'm sure I'll think of more things to add here.

[sprucebunny]

Thanks some more, Brad ;D
He mentioned something about changing the belts but I didn't understand what the problem was ....he didn't mention bearings being an issue but I don't think he has used it alot. It was a demonstrater and he's the second owner.


It was my mothers job to use soap on my mouth ;D :D

[dutchman]

I'm running a used 1995 30HT part time bought in 98. Factory support has been very good.The key to replaceing
pulley belts is to soak in hot water (not boiling) for a few min. allows you to strech them into pulley V grove.
Good luck.

[UNCLEBUCK]

Remember to save all your cuss words for "YOOPER NIGHT" .  I been saving a ton of them waiting for my first "YOOPER NIGHT" !  Get a sawmill S.B. so Jeff will let us all have yooper night !  Good luck and I hope you get a mill but I know youre smart and wont buy a pile of problems . Get a mill that will look good behind youre cool snow machine . I think your f/f handle would be a great name for your sawing business . Interesting and very good pics Brad S put up isnt it .

[sprucebunny]

Thank you all...especially Brad.
I've decided not to buy this mill.

I feel very fortunate to have your help and that the mill owner is an honest man.

My reasons for not buying are : It has the cable head advance. He has replaced the main bearings but still feels that it is a little sloppy. Also it was pointed out to me in a private message that hydraulics are not a big advantage when working with small logs. I feel I'd be better off with a manual mill and dogging up 2 logs at once ...it's also $10,000 cheaper ;D

[Larry]

Sprucebunny, another thought is you mentioned the need to cut longer logs.  With almost all mills you can buy an extension to cut the longer logs...costs vary widely.  I built an extension for my manual Kasco at the left for something like $10/foot. 

I learned most quick that you don't want the word to get out that you can cut long logs with a manual mill...guy showed up uninvited one day with a 30" - 24' long cottonwood for me to cut.

[Brad_S.]

Glad I could help, Sprucebunny. Sorry to see you didn't get it, we could use a few more TH owners around here but glad you have a better idea of what will be a good fit for your operation.

I agree with Uncle Buck, your FF handle would make a great business name! :D

[UNCLEBUCK]

Remember the chance of a lifetime only comes around every 6 weeks , have fun mill shopping s.b. !  ;D

[sprucebunny]

Thanks, UNCLEBUCK ;D

Thanks, everyone