Best workhorse UTV

[wisconsitom]

OK folks,, as I continue to refine what I think I want to end up with for equipment for my retirement hobby-forestry operation at my tree farm, I now wish to see what you guys think about heavy-duty UTVs.  Please note, I'm only interested in units that are built for work, not play.  Thus, if the name has a series of letters and numbers...but there's an X in there somewhere...probably not the unit I'm after, lol!  Not looking for racing stripes or "sporty".

Units I'm considering are being built by Kubota (of course), Bobcat, Cat (Textron, I believe), and perhaps some others.  J. Deere was certainly in the running but I saw some horror stories online that have soured me on that make.  I could be wrong about that.

So those are the types of units I'm interested in....basically, those UTVs that are most like a tractor!

I don't need fancy cab or fancy anything.  I will need torque, power ( but not over-powered for the drive train please), ruggedness, and reliability.  I will want to occasionally pull a smaller log trailer or log arch.  I will also want to move dirt, rocks, woodchips, etc. with a UTV trailer at times.

I'm thinking diesel, unless enough of you warn me off due to poor cold-weather starting.  25MPH is fast enough!

Thanks,
tom

[gspren]

Can't go wrong with Kubota.

[Southside]

Do you NEED a UTV or would a compact / sub compact tractor with a FEL, 3 PT hitch, and PTO serve you better?

[wisconsitom]

Would love a tractor w/FEL.  Not able to have both...UTV would offer recreational opportunities-many trails start right near our farm-that can't be had with tractor.  I think I can do more with UTV/trailer combo over the years than with tractor at this point, even though tractor had been goal.

Saw many...and I do mean many videos of successful small-scale logging, TSI, thinning, etc....all the tasks I will have in the near and mid-terms.....using UTVs.  I think this will work for what I'm after.  Thanks.

tom

PS....some of these units do have PTO, including Bobcat's front and rear PTO options.  Could be good.

[DWyatt]

Dad has one of the diesel John Deere's. Starts in any cold weather we have here, powered dump bed, no power steering. She's slow but plenty torquey for his needs. It gets started and ran with an oil change here and there. Just used it the other day when it was about 10° to move the LT40 into position where the truck couldn't go so we could saw some logs.

[mike_belben]

Are you referring to a toolcat 5600?  They start around $25k pretty worn out, but i'll admit is probably a pretty serious machine.  Ive only seen them at a glance never worked one.  Front loader and i think double ended PTO.  Quite the swiss army knife. 

[wisconsitom]

Thanks DWYatt.  Mike, I think that in the Bobcat line, front and rear PTO can be had short of the Toolcat, although that unit would be grand.  I think though that their basic units have these features as options, if I'm not mistaken.  Just starting to look at Bobcat, to be honest.

tom

[starmac]

I think you are looking for something to be both a workhorse and a recreational ride too. Do a lot of research ass most are more or less one or the other, not really what one would want for both.

The work horse ones that I have looked at are too heavy, and do not have the suspension for trail riding, I suppose a guy would have to decide just what percentages of use he wants and try and find the one most suitable for his needs.

I am no authority on them, but the diesel ones I have personally looked at, would be very poor for recreational use at all, not enough ground clearance to get off of any maintained trail. 

[Crusarius]

Look at mahindra. they have some sweet UTV's that have some really nice beds that I think will end dump or side dump and the sides fold down to make a flatbed. Really nice units.

I vaguely remember the sales guy telling me you can get 10' worth of bed with tailgate down. But that was a while ago. Friday I will be looking at them again when I go to the farm show. Just because I like to look 

[wisconsitom]

Thanks guys.  Had a real nice reply all written up and then...poof!

At any rate, none of the diesels I've reviewed had different ground clearance than their gas counterparts.  Simply not the case.  10.5 inches is about as good as it gets, and that would work for my conditions generally.  Speaking of that, I have a nice lane running down the gut of my plantation.  From there, I can run rows (if narrow machine) and quite easily access what I want.  This is upland, well-drained area of property.  I do have cedar swamp as well, but no need to drive into that area.

Kubota is the standard for what I'm looking into, but those units from Cat and Bobcat have some very intriguing aspects.  I think they are trying hard to come up with good work units.

And speaking of that, this search is way more to the work side than the trail-riding side, and I expressed that initially.  I mean, the Kubota RVT (I think) series is about as "hybrid" as I want to go.  All units I've looked at by any of these 3 manufacturers would be suitable for my intended purposes, which is 99.99% work and the rest, play.  Any "play" I do, 25 MPH is fast enough!  I may end up with faster gas unit, but still studying the diesels.

Speaking of that, since diesel rigs typically offer less HP, is there somehow more torque with the diesels?  I just want power that is balanced to the drive train, not massive power that is only going to tear the machine apart.  And no need for speed.

Thanks,
tom

[Crusarius]

Look at the mahindra. it will rival all the other ones you have been looking at 

[mike_belben]

A gas engine has to be much larger and spun much faster to match the torque output of a diesel because peak cylinder pressure in a gasser occurs just past TDC.. Maybe 5 or 10*..  when the crank and rod are pretty vertical.   diesel can direct inject fuel into the fireball well past TDC [intake valve closes, terminating the injection window of conventional gas 4cycles.]  A diesel has its peak cylinder pressure occurs like 30 to maybe 70* past tdc when the crank is at a right angle to the rod and leverage comes into play, multiplying to force into the crankshaft.  Think bicycle.  You cant really propel yourself until the pedals are half way down, its that simple.  So the diesel makes multitudes more torque from its fuel and displacement without requiring the inertial tunnel ram effect of high rpm gasser to fill the bore.  Diesel is also not throttled which creates high pumping loss.  Injection quantity dictates rpm entirely.  Low rpm is part of why they last longer too. 

Cliff notes, A diesel machine will not be lugged down like a gasser when you pull a hydraulic valve. And itll do more work per gallon.  

[wisconsitom]

Thanks Mike.  So diesel wins out in absolute working, lugging ability, it would seem.  Again, that is my likely direction.  Crusarius, thanks for mentioning the Mahindra.  Now this may sound stupid-what the heck, it is kind of stupid-but I just don't like how they look!  Same with Honda-I know they are quality units but I don't like that raked-back "buggy" look.  Something squattier and less sporty looking for me.  So far-and I appreciate any and all mentions-the only ones I really like are Kubota, Bobcat, and Cat.

thanks,
tom

[mike_belben]

Yeah the diesel will win in all contests except purchase price and maybe cold weather starting.  However cold starts seem to be more an old iron issue than a new one.  If you can get near an extension cord its probably a non issue for your situation.  Some cetane additive in winter and you may not even need the plug. 

[TKehl]

For the workload, diesel wins no question.

If diesel will work with your climate, I have to leave that to others.  There are block heaters and coolant heaters though that make things easier.  Its all about starting them in the cold and keeping the fuel from gelling which just requires some additives.

Our old Allis 200 will cold start on a cold day with a bit of ether.  Don't think it has any glow plugs.  The newer John Deere tractor (1985 model) and the JD skid steer both start in the coldest weather here with the glow plugs and no ether.

[mike_belben]

I will say my diesel experience is limited to mechanical injection industrial and auto stuff of 20yrs and older.  I dont know if common rail high pressure has made its way into these off highway items or how complicated they are to troubleshoot.. That youll need to research on a case by case basis. 

For gasser type stuff, a vtwin kohler carbureted engine isnt too hard to deal with.  But i think these utvs are gonna be 3 and 4 cylinder efi jobs that may not be as easy as plugging in a scan tool.  I really dont know, youll need some other guys to chime in on that end.   

[Old Greenhorn]

Yeah the diesel will win in all contests except purchase price and maybe cold weather starting.  .....

Respectfully Mike, I would also add noise. The diesels are much louder. For me that is something to consider. My friends with diesels often complain that they can't have a conversation in the cab while driving as they can in my Gas Mule. Diesels do have the power over gas though. Depending on the weather you plan to work in, I would consider a cab and at least a windshield. 15° at 15 mph can get pretty cold. I bought a used Mule, put a few weeks of work into it in the evenings and it has run like a top for nearly 2 years now with daily use. It has a cab, some heat, windshield wiper (important in snow), plow, winch, skidding arch, and work lights. I love it. There are a couple of photos in my gallery. These things are fairly easy to work on and the parts (except the drive converters and the ignition module) are fairly cheap. Don't discount a used machine if that works for you. If you change your mind later, resale is usually pretty easy for near or better than you paid and you can upgrade. Buying new is costly if you want to change direction. I love my little work horse.

[wisconsitom]

Agree about the cab/windshield, etc. but I will have the ultimate control over when and where I drive the thing.  Back when we had the Polaris, we did take a ride on a cool October day about twenty miles up a railroad grade trail.  It was cold indeed coming back!  So yeah, if I can cab it, budget permitting, I will.  But even if no cab, I'll be okay.  I will be able to wait for a nicer day!  That is, unless things take off and start to run me, instead of the other way around.  But this is a retirement plan, and I should have control over that.

I did notice that the Kubotas seem noisy.  Meanwhile, Cat advertises their quietness, but I'm not sure they're talking about the diesel units when they tout that aspect.  It is a factor, I agree.  I do want that diesel efficiency/torque though.  At the end of the day, this is a case where I will put up with noise if 
I can do my work efficiently.  But you're right-a quieter machine would be preferable. 

Thanks all,
tom

[Engineer]

We use a Kubota RTV-X900 at work for general grounds maintenance, and have a V-plow and sander for winter use.  It is a workhorse and can get anywhere we need it to go.  I am not a huge fan of the seat and the driving position - if you are a big guy it may be uncomfortable. 

Might want to take a look at Kawasaki, Club Car and Can-Am.

[whatwas]

we bought a kubota 500 utv early winter with a 5' plow, roof and windshield. No cab and only used it to plow the lighter snow falls, I still used the tractor for the 4+ " snow falls, but its no toy and will push way more than I thought it would.
It has hydro trans, two cyl gas liquid, high and low range with a diff lock if needed. I'm looking forward to getting on some good footing to see what it will pull, but I'm sure it will lose traction before it loses power, low range to the floor is about walking speed. 

[snowstorm]

polaris brutus diesel hystat all kinds of attachments . some times a used one shows up. the cat is a textron that used to be a arctic cat.the ac was bad. had a ac dealer tell me he would not sell them. to much trouble. when textron bought them they made some changes. they are said to be better

[Gary_C]

I will say my diesel experience is limited...   I dont know ...

For gasser type stuff,   I really dont know, youll need some other guys to chime in on that end.  

I agree.   :

A gas engine has to be much larger and spun much faster to match the torque output of a diesel because peak cylinder pressure in a gasser occurs just past TDC.. Maybe 5 or 10*..  when the crank and rod are pretty vertical.   diesel can direct inject fuel into the fireball well past TDC [intake valve closes, terminating the injection window of conventional gas 4cycles.]  A diesel has its peak cylinder pressure occurs like 30 to maybe 70* past tdc when the crank is at a right angle to the rod and leverage comes into play, multiplying to force into the crankshaft.  Think bicycle.  You cant really propel yourself until the pedals are half way down, its that simple.  So the diesel makes multitudes more torque from its fuel and displacement without requiring the inertial tunnel ram effect of high rpm gasser to fill the bore.  Diesel is also not throttled which creates high pumping loss.  Injection quantity dictates rpm entirely.  Low rpm is part of why they last longer too.

Cliff notes, A diesel machine will not be lugged down like a gasser when you pull a hydraulic valve. And itll do more work per gallon.  

A diesel (compression ignition or CI) engine develops more torque because of the longer crank throws (stroke) required for the necessary higher compression used to produce compression ignition.

The difference between CI and gas (spark ignition or SI) engines has little to do with fuel timing vs. carburetion as all but the smaller SI engines are now fuel injected anyway.

Plus the CI engines are larger in terms of mass because of the need to contain much larger cranks and more journals and to withstand higher compression with the block and heads. Also SI engines do not necessarily need to be larger displacement wise to produce more horsepower as they can simply turn faster since the formula for determining horsepower is torque times RPM.

Bottom line is CI engines are better torque producers and have what's called a flatter torque curve, ie they produce torque over a wider range of RPM's. That means the RPM will drop less when a load is applied.

Also diesel fuel contains more BTU's per gallon than gas.  

[wisconsitom]

Thanks fellows, much good info to chew on.  Keeping in mind this is dreaming going on here...with no imminent purchase...but one likely in next 2 years or so....I have now refined a bit further:

• Diesel
• Hydrostatic transmission

I think at this point, I'm only really looking at Kubota and Bobcat.  I really like what I'm seeing in the Bobcat 3600 series.

Thanks,
tom

[mike_belben]

Gary if you got a problem with me come right out and say it like a man.  You dont have to change my quotes around.  I can admit when i dont know something without your help.

The torque production of any engine has a boatload to do with the crank timing of peak bmep and your explanation above is full of error. quit trolling me all over the forum.

[wisconsitom]

Mike, you had mentioned the Bobcat Toolcat.  I had to study the website but now I've got it straight-the Toolcat is the 5600 series.  I also noticed that in the 3600 series of UTV, one can get front PTO.

I think that front PTO is just great, but I do also think it would tend to lock one down to Bobcat implements and attachments.  Probably a slick system that would be hard to ignore.  Still, PTO-drive is great and I should fully investigate those front-PTO units.

Heck, with the Toolcat, I could have front grapple and skip the trailer altogether.  For my level of need, I could snake one or two logs at a time up the hill to my (imaginary at this point) bandsaw mill.  Quite a machine indeed.

I like the UTVs better though, and would likely never take the Toolcat down a public trail!

Thanks,
tom