Peterson vs Lucas

[Captain]

You go, Randy!! :D

Captain

[1953greg]

thanks guys from all over.  had no idea i would open up such a big can.  couple of points: 
1. the $150/cube i saw does that convert to $.62/board foot usd? 
2. the d&l is out of the question as most logs (>24") are too large for a 30hp 4wd tractor to lift.  the logs i saw are usually large single isolated trees, tree line blow down, lightining strike, yard removal, or others that are too large for the local loggers.  largest to date is a 46" cherry bark oak.  i have been using a 42" alaskan chainsaw mill for slabbing then ripping w/ a skill saw.  slow primitive way but i have bout 2500bf in the barn air drying.    everyone has to start somewhere!   guess i will just have to make a trip to youngstown in june.  thanks again  1953greg

[Ianab]

Hey... we will talk about the pros and cons of different mills all day  :D

Sounds like you have been doing your homework, a swingblade is the thing you need and whatever one you get it's going to be a big step up from the Alaskan.

The $150 per cube rate would be about .35c bd/ft I think (thats NZ cents) Probably about .25c of your money  ??? :P

Similar to your prices I think.

Ian

[sigidi]

Alright I've been watching this one unfold for awhile now and feel I need to put my hnd up and ask some Q's, at the trisk of making this sticky - not my intention...

1) regardless of if it's good business sense, someone not sponsoring this great forum can't be taken as a blight on their equipment can it? As Jeff said ha can't comment on Lucas - mind you that has me thinking... as Baileys are the distributors of Lucas over there, is it more pertinent to ask why baileys hasn't done any sponsoring?

2) Lucas issues - Hokiemill on your locking of side adjust, I too had some initial problems and seemed to have mine tied down, as a fellow Lucas owner and more importantly forum member, I would be more than pleased to help out to avoid the extra work you talk of, things like that are frustrating at best and downright dangerous at worst. You may want to contact Lucas to find out if any mods have been made to susequent models since yours was fabricated, I know mine, bought last year, can turn around with the blade on the face of the log to negate having to pick up the power head to do dbl cuts. The dble cutting by taking blade guards off is a major safety concern isn't it? or why is the guard there?

3) Either of them, unless looking at the Peterson ASM, are a good workout, but then we aren't comparing apples to apples...

4) A Question maybe Captain can answer for me - during a horizontal cut the lucas can cut a full 8" but it is slower than doing two 4" cuts, is this the same for Peterson? is it better for the equipment to do two 4" cuts but still possible to do a full 8" horizontal?

5) Captain for you again (sorry mate but I know you know your Peterson stuff) with a thicker blade blank (as compared to Lucas) but the same size kerf is there more possibility of friction due to lack of clearance? would this blade retain heat longer as it is thicker? admittedly I'd expect it to be a more robust blade as it is thicker, but are these things probable?

Disclaimer - I'm a lucas owner and don't profit from my point of view here - whatever decison you make for your cutting will have you getting more addicted than you already are Greg and after working with the Alaskan mill you will find either make a dream to run

Good luck Greg

Oh and one last thing, I haven't been milling for a long time (just about to crack 60hours of engine time!!!) and as such have taken a long time to post on this thread, but I really felt that Larry would expect me to be in here asking some q's and putting some ideas forward.

(Larry is my Mill)

[NZJake]

Sigid, just to answer the guard thing... The Peterson has an extended push handle guard that keeps the operator away from the centre unit almost half a meter extrta than the lucas, it also has a longer push handle. The emergancy stop is located exactly where your hand would be pushing. We really have designed as many safety functions into the mill as possible.

I can tell you why that guard is so important, I'm about to cut up the other half of the gum log today 2meters wide at the but end. When your trying to push the mill at that height sawdust blasts your chest and gets down your pants with out that guard. The guard does come in handy when you are dealing with hairy logs though, it deflects small obsticals away from the operator.

The Peterson manual illustrates clear step by step instructions how to double cut ie... standing on the left side of the log while the blade cuts the right side of it. When I am production double cutting the guard stays off tell the end of the log (this is my preference, alternate wing nuts can be put on or even little chained pins if you are concerned).

Double cutting on the Lucas? How does the bed stay suspended by the centre unit?  Is there a mark at the centre of the bed to assume the swing? How do the blades live up to all that weight being put on them? Do you get any chain stretch when lowering and raising the winches (intersect meet)?

Captain will probably answer this one a little better. Sure when I am using the ASM sometimes it makes since to take two bites to perform a 10" wide cut, it takes me 2 seconds to return to the beginning and cut the second-with out any energy waisted.

On my manual ATS I do not make practice of cutting two 4's to make a horizontal eight, I keep my blade sharp and power through it every time. Our blades have good clearance and have been proven over many years, the thick blades stops the tendancy for wondering which takes HP away. Also keeps the blade from getting hot. Most timber in NZ water is not even required on our blades, (except for our microkerf range), that should tell you that the clearance is very good.

[CosmoPack]

I am cutting 6x8 and 8 x 10 Red oak with my Peterson WPF and I am not using any water on the blade.  The blade stays warm, but not hot.  I am cutting a 10" horizontal cut and a 8" vertical cun most of the time.  I have had some pinching of the blade,  but I used a couple of wedges and sawed on out.

I have had to double cut on White Oak on a 10" vertical line.  I dropped 6" and cut all of the vertical lines and then dropped 4" and cut with a standard swing blade cutting pattern. 

[Captain]

Hey Sigidi, I'll try to add to Jake's answers for you a bit...

Aided by the thickness of the blade plate, cutting full depth horizontals with the Peterson with a sharp blade that has appropriate tension and side clearance is absolutely not a problem, most of the time....some species like Hickory or a very dry/tensioned  piece of White Oak is sometimes abusive to a blade.  It demands water cooling and sometimes is better to take a full depth cut in two passes.  This is one advantage of a swing mill over multi-blade dimensional mills.  With the multi blade mills to achieve your desired size timber, you are forced to do it in one pass. 

I have not had difficulties with blades overheating or running hot due to a difference in side clearance on a frequent basis.  I did have a job cutting some bandmill rejected ten year down Elm for a fellow, about 2200BF of it.  My blade was over half worn from its original carbide dimensions, so my side clearance had already been reduced.  When that job was finished, although I still had considerable life on the faces of my carbide teeth (except for the ones that the 16 penny nails got to :), the side clearance on my blade was completely reduced.  I realized this when cutting a pine log on the next job.  The teeth were sharp, but the blade did not want to go through.  That blade was slightly discolored from higher than normal heat.

I, like Cosmo, use little to no water this time of year when the logs are frozen or near frozen.  I really only use it for pitch buildup reduction in the warm months, unless taking on a dense tensioned hardwood like White oak or Hickory.
I have seen new Lucas blades walk in full depth vertical and horizontal cuts in hardwood, I believe due to their plate thickness?? 

Now maybe you Lucas folks can tell me what the difference is between a standard Lucas blade and the "Aussie" blade marketed by Bailey's??  I was wondering if the more expensive Aussie blade had a thicker plate.

Captain

[sigidi]

NZ Jake - one big reason behind my choice of purchase between the two mills was a safety aspect, now I'm not saying one is safer than the other, or anything like that. It was just the concept of removing guards to use a feature of the mill - a bit of background I had my leg crushed while operating equipment 4.5 years ago and since that I am very concious of safety (pity I wasn't so concious 4.6 years ago ;)) so just in my case it was a big putoff, I dunno maybe it could be explained in a bit more detail in the promo stuff or whatever. You see I bought a mill without operating either mill, both the reps yourselves (Simon C) and Lucas (John F) where too far from me to do the driving Simon about 180-200mile and John 140mile, so the promo stuff adn such q's was all I had to go on.

Turning the carriage around to dble cut - the blade does rest on the face of the cut log, but this just provides the pivot point and the weight is taken by the drive shaft and the two 'feet' positioned in front and back of the blade. Addmittedly I am carefull in how I do this as I don't cut well with bent blades and I only do it on the bigger logs so ther is a good surface to use, so I wouldn't do it on a 16" log it's just got too small a face

Cosmo - I use water all the time and also add dishwasing detergent to work as a surfactant to stop any build-up. When the engine stops and the blade has wound down touching the blade finds it cool and not even warm - this did surprise me somewhat, I have heated up one blade by trying to yeild too much from the bottom of the log and it pinched in the middle between my bunks where the weight ot the remaining log was too much.

Captain - maybe we differ in what we cut, I'm primarily cutting hardwoods which have a density of over 2200lbs per 424 bft when at 12% MC so I find the water and the dble horizontal cuts are much easier on my equipment, having said this I can do the full depth horizontal and vertical cuts but as you put it, it's abusive to the equipment.

Metal sucks I'm sure - I know the is no $'s in the budget for a metal detector, but I bet as soon as I clean up after my first strike, the budget will magically grow to accomodate a metal detector purchase :D

Blade walking - I haven't experienced any yet (as you mention a fella has to look after his blade, tension, sharpness etc and it will look after him) I just finished cutting 'internal lining' boards 4 x 150mm or 5/32x6" and had no trouble other than DanG moth/bug holes in the boards in the most inconvenient places.

Aussie blade at baileys - just checking out Baileys BRB... ok it seems the Aussie blade at $189 is an original from down under, whereas the Lucas blade for $149 is a local knock-off made by Simmonds you guys are lucky, over here our blades retail at about $229US

[Arthur]

I can't resist to comment, but everyone knows what I would say for production, size of logs sawing and such.   I just have not found a mill that can do the precisions and production for one fella or gal like the two I have.

Yes, and ain't it a shame, with all the owners of that particular mill manufacture that are members of the Forestry Forum, and all the mentions that they get here, That that mill manufacturer's owner will not give the Forestry Forum any support let alone the time of day.

Looking at Swing mills, Peterson is a great mill with great people behind it.

Jeff

isnt it about time that you allowed EcoSaw to sponsor the FF.  Our American manufacture D&L Double Cut already does and threads like this one deserve the extra input for information to the potential swinger.

arthur

[Hokiemill]

Came home from work today and was greeted with a box from New Zealand!!  True to her word Kerris sent some fabulous Peterson gear.  Now I know you guys are jealous, but take a look at this:



Who wouldn't be jealous of strikingly handsome guy like that.  And the hat and shirt ain't half bad either. :D  The gear also came with a very nice note and a picture showing the whole Peterson crew with names attached.  You guys have outdone yourselves.  Thanks a million.  I'll proudly display my black and red.

By the way - don't let the beard scare you.  I change my "configuration" on a regular basis - sometimes a beard, or a goatee, or a fumanchu, long hair, short hair, or shaved bald.  Working with engineers can be quite boring so I like to shake things up a bit.

Thanks again to Kerris and the whole Peterson gang.

[tnlogger]

 Great hat and shirt there Hokiemill  8) 8)
ya think you might be getting buttered up to work one of dem shootouts  :D :D :D
                     cograts gene

[Hokiemill]

I'll work wherever they want me to - I'm buttering them up for a mill.  ;D ;) ;D

[Captain]

Now that is some pretty high fashion merchandise....a fellow could get mistaken for someone else...well, not with that beard

Captain

[Jeff]

Now Hokiemill, if you would just send ME your address, we could ship your rust reaper you won a month ago!  I still aint heard from ya...

[KiwiCharlie]

Hi,
For me its come down to the Peterson 1st, Mahoe 2nd, and the Rimu 3rd, but all closely spaced!  :D  Purchase is still a way off, but its coming.  The light I see at the end of the tunnel is definitely NOT an oncoming train!
Hows this for a small world - it looks like Im currently working for a guy who is the stepfather of a Peterson NZ employee!!  Go figure!
Sorry, this doesnt compare Lucas at all, but from the start Ive never been a big fan of the Lucas, based solely on what Ive seen, ie never run one.
Cheers,
Charlie.

[Ga_Boy]

Jeff,

Hokie and I are practically next door neighbors, send me that Rust reaper and I'll let Hokie use it any time he wants> ;) ;)  ;D



Mark

[Hokiemill]

Jeff, I'm not sure what's going on.  I sent it on the day I won it, then I sent it again when you emailed me about it.  I'm going to send it to you via FF mail this time.  Sorry about our disconnects.

[Jeff]

 :D

Still aint got it. Who are you sending the I.M.'s to? 

[Hokiemill]

Jeff, I just sent it a few minutes ago.  All I did was click on your email icon under your pretty picture in your post.  It opens up my outlook and the address is "jeff@forestryforum.com".

Ga_Boy, thanks for the offer, but I think we can get this worked out.

[Jeff]

Got it!

[J_T]

Lost that one Ga Boy :D :D Good try :D :D

[Ga_Boy]

Yea JT, when you see an oppertunity ya just gotta try.

Hokie,

Not to worry, I was just trying to look out for ya.  In a few weeks I will be driving over to Stanton to vist Outback Heating to pick up a Heatmor unit.


Mark

[Wife]

Hokiemill - I'm sorry I've been a bit quiet lately, but I certainly got shown that great photo the minute you put it up - I had no idea how complementing the gear would be with your (still ;)) black beard - that is certainly a photo worth framing! Thank you so much for putting that up. Mind if we stick it in a newsletter or something when the opportunity comes up??

Oh, and you might have some competition if Sigidi keeps giving me such good feedback too....hmmm...we could run a competition..."Millers Faces of the Millennium"....of course wearing sponsors gear  ;D

[J D in AUS]

Hokemill
               To load lucas mill, fit wheels, wind up til wheels above floor of truck/ute trailer  Back/reverse  truck/ute under saw carrier, wind down,  No  ramps needed    How easy was that
                                                         J D in Aus                 Happy owner Lucas mill in sunny Queensland  Aus.    8)

[Fla._Deadheader]

Gidday, Mate.  Welcome to the Forum.   How long ya been sawing??