Timberjack planetary

Bjt · September 14, 2018, 10:04:19 PM

My 208e has the Rockwell differentials with pr52 planetary/spider cover building heat after a few hundred yards of empty or loaded driving. I installed a new cover with brass pins but reused the sun gears and plate and filled with synthetic 75-90. The both front covers/spiders have the snap rings in the end of the brass pins and the rear covers have the steel plate that holds the sun gears in place. I removed the new cover to inspect for rubbing spots and didn't find anything. The old cover was leaking bad and getting very hot and was why i purchased a new one that now is doing the same things. Bearing and axle nut are tight. Any advice will be appreciated thx Brandon

kiko · September 14, 2018, 10:50:45 PM

Have you visually seen the axle bearing? The roller s could be pitted creating the heat. Is only the one corner that is heating?

Bjt · September 15, 2018, 06:16:31 AM

Yes i replaced the roller bearing and the seal. When I bought the skidder the axle nut therads were stripped and the nut was tack welded to the spindle with up/down play in the in the wheel. Spindle threads are good. U think it could be the race in the hub maybe? The other corners get sorta warm After a few long pulls. It's a farm use skidder that I've owned for 2 years slowly trying to restore.

bushmechanic · September 16, 2018, 06:22:36 AM

Not too much that can go wrong there Bjt. The cover with the plates, spacers and bolts wired up is the correct cover for that machine. I found that if there is too much play between the planetary gear and the brass pin then it will generate a lot of heat in the wheel end. Here where I live on a cooler damp morning a bad wheel end would show up plain as day when you travelled the machine in the woods the bad planetary would dry off real quick and you could see the steam coming off it. If your bearings and races are ok and the preload is not too much I would look at those brass pins and gears for too much wear.

Bjt · September 16, 2018, 09:14:28 AM

I'm sure the preload is ok along with the brass pins and the bearing, but there was some play between the gears and pins because I reused them on the new cover that has new pins. So I'll try 3 new gears and a race and see how it goes. Thanks for the help.

mike_belben · September 16, 2018, 09:21:28 AM

Do those pinion gears have bearings or just steel on bronze pins?

Bjt · September 16, 2018, 11:33:57 AM

No bearings, yes steel gears on bronze or brass pins mike.

Bjt · September 16, 2018, 05:47:18 PM

All 4 tires are 23.1-26 with even tread wear. The cover that I'm having problems with the tire is separated from the sidewall making the circumference of it larger. Would that generate heat at the cover?

teakwood · September 17, 2018, 08:37:52 AM

yes it will. That tire looks dead to me. If the tires are uneven its hard for the planetarys and diffs

simonlow · September 18, 2018, 12:23:37 AM

Hi, I have just replaced front tyres on my timberjack 207D, and was wondering about this issue, as I guess I hadn't realised quite how much taller the new ones are!
The tyre man pointed this out too, and I originally thought he might be after a sale of a second pair, but after asking around, and reading this, I think I should dig deep for a second pair to have all 4 matching.

Lots of people have chains just on the front, could this put uneven strain on the planeteries also ?

Bjt · September 18, 2018, 05:19:32 PM

I ordered 4 new tires today that'll be here Friday. When I get em put on I'll post, hopefully it solves the prob.

Bjt · September 21, 2018, 12:29:28 PM

So I just received a call from the tire shop where I purchased the tires for my skidder stating that the rims were flaking and that he didn't think that installing a tube would be a good idea. He suggested that I go tubeless. I'm going over to take a look after work and talk with him. What y'all think?

dnash · September 24, 2018, 11:52:40 AM

A good wire wheeling should take care of the flaking, then you can run tubes.

Bjt · October 05, 2018, 09:42:03 AM

The new tires with tubes is mounted and I am very well pleased with them, but after a 2 mile test run heat is still building at the planetary cover/left rear. To try and pinpoint a problem with the cover, the front and back covers were exchanged and compared, but heat is still building. One thing that i noticed was different between the front and back, was the problem cover would not slide completely against the hub by 1/4-3/8", requiring the bolts to draw the cover and hub together. The front cover and hub will go completely together with ease. So if the tires, bearings, and oil seal is new, the axle is not bent and play between the gears and pins is normal. Could the race be worn and allow the hub to set in to much, holding the cover away from the hub?

mike_belben · October 05, 2018, 02:43:51 PM

Did the cover pull into the hub or the hub pull out to the cover? Either way it doesnt sound good.

Is there a seal or oring hanging up? A bearing race floating apart or a speedi sleeve sliding on the spindle? Wrong bearing? I think id tear it back down to the housing and really get the magnifiying glass out.

Pics with new rubber!

Bjt · October 05, 2018, 08:44:27 PM

Pretty sure the cover pulled to the hub. There is no speedy sleeve on the spindle and the oil seal is not hanging. The race could be floating apart and there's a chance the parts house could've given me the wrong bearing because I didn't compare the numbers and sizes of old and new bearings. I'll get it back apart for another look in a few days thanks mike. Tires 18.4-26 BKT12ply

bushmechanic · October 06, 2018, 07:19:42 PM

Well it would seem obvious that if you swapped covers and the problem still exists then most likely it's not in a cover. If I were you and if I take it apart and can't see anything wrong then I would pull a complete wheel end off a good working one (no heat issues) and install it on the problem wheel end, axle and all. If you pull out the cover and side axle you can unbolt the spindle with the hub still attached and move it to another location. Don't get caught up on the cover not sliding in as sometimes they are a tight fit, there are push holes threaded in to the cover to aid in removing it. I think maybe you have a bent spindle, but the only way to pinpoint it is to start moving parts around, good luck.

mike_belben · October 06, 2018, 10:29:20 PM

Ahh... Good thinking. Bent spindle slipped my mind. Be pretty easy to check out with a machinist's straight edge or any good piece of flat, straight steel really. Lay the piece on the flat for the inner bearing race surface, then measure the depth from the piece to the spindle threads using the plunger on back of a vernier/dial caliper. Check 3 spots, if not the same its bent. You could maybe get a magnetic indicator base rigged just right to indicate concentricity of the spindle end relative to the tube centerline axis by walking it around. If the spindle unbolts just chuck it in a lathe and youll see it dance.

The locknut was welded on so that kinda supports a bent spindle too.

Bjt · October 19, 2018, 10:17:08 PM

It was a warped/bent axle that was causing the problems with the cover. My eye and a 4' level was not precise enough the first time I checked for warp. So after several parts exchanges with no success i decided to remove the axle snap ring and gear, this time for a closer look and a roll across the concrete floor, and sure enough it was a bend that I missed. The machine shop said it was initially out .034 and could only get .020 out leaving it still warped .014 but there is no heat issues after a 2 mile test run empty, then a 1 mile pull with a hitch. Thanks everyone for the help.

barbender · October 19, 2018, 11:48:31 PM

Thanks for the update on the mystery. Gad you got it figured out👍

Southside · October 19, 2018, 11:56:54 PM

Any idea what happened to bend the axle?

thecfarm · October 20, 2018, 06:05:36 AM

Now you are cooking!! ;D

Bjt · October 20, 2018, 09:16:37 AM

Not sure what went on to bend the axle. After several calls and texts to the previous owner of the 208 with no response, trying to find out how or what had happened that could be causing the heat building problems, I finally gave up. So, since the axle nut was welded to the spindle because the threads were stripped and the bend was in the middle of the axle, I'm going to take a guess at it and say that the axle nut came off along with the wheel and hub. The axle slides out midways and the weight of the skidder puts the bend in it.