Milling Pine with waves like the ocean.

[RacinRex]

White pine with my little manual mill.

Can a dull Blade cause serious wandering and waves?

What are some of the options for de-barking de-mudding??

What are you guys using for blade lube when milling pine?

I've got about 15 more logs on the ground and about 10-15 more Trees in the woods so I'm going to need to know. :-( rookie questions for sure.

everything I pulled out up till this weekend was clean... got some dirt and mud on there and thought I did an ok job cleaning it up but I think I was wrong since I went to wandering before I even got all the slaps off the log with a brand new blade. Kept riding up... I checked all adjustments on the guides and the tension on the blade seemed good. I assuming it was just a dull blade but since I didn't have another to test with its a guess only.

Thanks in advance guys...

I think I still have sawdust in my mouth from opening it and yelling my displeasure at the mill yesterday... I know for a fact it wasn't the mill's fault but its better than yellin' at the wife and listens just as well  :P

[raycon]

Dull band will do it for sure.
Once in a while I'll scrape the bark off with a sharpened ice chipper. (Ice chipper made from 3/8 " steel). Takes about five mintues to debark a log 20' in length.
Slowing down the feed going through knots might help --till you nail down whats causing the problem.
I use straight water sometimes add soap to the mix.

[RacinRex]

Wow Ray... That was prompt.

We slowed the feed rate way down but I have a feeling the damage was already done from the dirt out on the slabs.

Do you have a pic of the debarker you are using? I'm for stealing.... er I mean sharing ideas  ;)

[Brad_S.]

RacinRex

Does sound like a blade problem alright. Softwoods are actually harder to cut straight in than hardwoods. For some real fun, wait till you try cutting spruce! :D

As mentioned in the past, most blades aren't really all that sharp right from the box. You may do better with a resharpened blade. More set in the blade also helps. I keep the same grind angle on my teeth year round for all species and have no problems, but many will disagree with me and may chime in with advice on that. Feed speed plays a factor as well, but I suspect your already crawling as it is.

Before I had the handy dandy debarker on my mill, I would knock dirt off of logs using either an axe or a drawknife. Pressure washing works great but is messy. Those Log Wizard debarkers on a chainsaw work well in temperate seasons, but are worthless on frozen mud, but then not much at all works well on that. Get the muddy ones done before it freezes! ;D

I find yelling at the mill a better option than the wife as well. The mill seems to forgive and forget quicker. :D

[RacinRex]

would you believe that I'm so new at this that I dont' even have resharps  :-[ .

I have to depend on the boxed items for now.  I think I'm going to have to find like a flat axe or something to really just chip that stupid bark right off from there......

Maybe now that I'm thinking about it... what were the tools that orginal settlers used to make the beams in these old barns.... they were chipped down to square from what I can see.... The bark ought to be easy to remove with that tool.. and maybe a chalk line down the log quick some I'm only removing dirt that will be in the cutting path of the blade... sound good?

[raycon]

Talking about an adze?
No you don't want to use a adze to debark. The ice chipper will do it a lot faster. (Its not really called an ice chipper thats one catergory its sold as...I can't remember theright name at the moment)
It has a 4" or so wide cutting edge 3/8" thick steel. The steel portion is maybe 10" long. 5ft handle. I debark the logs on the mill so I'm working at waste height or so. Once you get started the bark peels off more than chopped off. Peels off in foot or two lengths.

[Brad_S.]

The old timers used a broad axe. I just used a chopping axe. I saved that for ground in mud and used the draw knife most of the time. Chalk line may be over kill, but yes, all you need to clean for a cut is where the blade will travel. The problem becomes if you edge on your mill, it's extremely hard to clean all the areas you will hit. If you can, position logs so your first cut will take most of the mud off in the slab. Sometimes, with the first slab close to the bark you will pick up waves, but the next cuts where you're getting a good width of wood, the cuts will be straighter.

Blades should be able to take some amount of dirt without immediately going to ocean waves. You may want to work with a truly sharp blade before getting too wrapped up in the dirt issue. Just a thought. Hard to diagnos without seeing all the variables.

[MULE_MAN]

It's been my experience that on sawing soft wood that your better off to go slower
to get a good straight cut. Knots will cause the blade to drip one way are the other.
on soft wood.  I used to think that using a good sharp blade on soft wood wasn't
important. But I found out different !! A good sharp blade & a little slower feed rate
should take care of your problem.  A debarker would save your blade allot !!   ;)

[Bruce_A]

Might try a home made spud.  Weld a pipe handle to top of a pole axe so you can push the blade under the bark.  Works great.  A foot adze got its name from the way it is used and the toes it removed.

[RacinRex]

I'm not sure I know what a pole axe is, can someone show me?

[beenthere]

RacinRex

Pole Axe
http://www.mwart.com/xq/ASP/pid.915./cat.52/qx/product.htm

[Larry]

Handy Things  See reply 67.

[RacinRex]

Thank you.... I understand now.... I was thinking about maybe getting a piece of 1/4 inch plate steel and cutting it to that shape... axe on once side and point on the other and putting a nice 3 1/2 -4 ft handle on it. does that sound like a reasonable tool for the job?

[raycon]

What Larry posted is pretty close to what I'm using.
A leaf spring would be good with a chisel edge added to get underneath the bark and lift it up.

[Swede]

RacinRex;
Guides >5" from the log,
fast feeding,
and softwood
 is enough for making waves. You don´t need a dull blade!  

I know from sawing most soft wood, we don´t have much hard wood here but I´ve sawed some.....Yes, try to find a spruce that has growed fast and alone on a field, they are full of 4" branches from the ground to the top!  ;D  Lift it up on Your saw mill at once after You´ve cut it down. Use a sharp Monkey blade. You´ll easyly get waves untill You´ve sawn 65% of the log!  :D  :D The same happens if it´s a pine that has get the top broken of f.ex. heavy snow. They use to be brances only.

Not much (no) space between the guides and the band,
the guides close to the log
Mix 50/50 diesel fuel and oil in the lubrication but just 10-20 drops/ minute in fresh wood.
and slow feeding is how I use to do. But making wavy boards from soft wood happens anyone somtimes, I did some last week.   :

Swede.

[Bro. Noble]

If you can turn your logs so that the blade enters clean bark,  it doesn't matter so much if it's dirty where the blade exits.  We don't have a debarker and rarely clean any dirt off,  when we do we use a wire brush.  Wavy cuts and other similar problems are caused by dull blades over 90 percent of the time.  I wouldn't try to saw without a sharpener and setter,  but others won't consider anything but resharp services.

[stumpy]

I cut alot of pine and I can tell you that a dull blade will definately cause the waving cuts. As far as the bark stripper, I us a flat shovel with a 5' handle.

[customsawyer]

Down here in the south we run into alot of yelow pine that can have alot of pitch in them and I use pinesol mixed in the water at about a cup per 5 gal. for light pitch 2-3 cups for heavy pitch have also found that pitch build up on blades will make wavy cuts good luck

[Kelvin]

Big thing with cutting pine is wider kerf on blade.  Chips expand way more in pine once cut so gullets need to hold more volume.  You will get overheating and premature dulling do to excess chips.  Softwood blades have much wider kerfs and 15 degree hook.  This keeps the blade working properly.  Dirt is problem anyways.  Don't speed up and slow down through the knots.  Go slow all the way.  Blades rise and fall with feed rate.  When saw hits hard knot and slows down, causes change in direction, they accelerates out through soft wood.  Sharp blades, proper hook and kerf, no dirt.  Should saw pretty flat ( +/- 1/16") with decent feed rate.  CAn't use the same blade designed for oak as pine.  Can, but not effeciant.  Woodmizer makes something like a doz profiles now.  Order a couple softwood blades, spray paint the backs so you can tell them apart.  Change blades!  Good luck.  Make sure your guides are set right, with the right amount of down tension.
kelvin

[EZ]

All of these replys are good.
I also was having trouble sawing pine, but now it's a breeze. When I first started ordering blades I told them 14 ft 6 inches. The blades were hard to put on even with the tension all the way released( spring tension) but they did saw good lumber. The next time I order blades I told him if he could make them a little bit longer and he did. When I started using the second batch of blades I was setting the tension the same place as the shorter ones and the tension was'nt enough.Which was causing problems sawing pine.
EZ

[rbarshaw]

I also cut mostly pine and have found that entering the log from the small end (top) with the band blade, rather than the lagre or bottom, always gives me a smoother cut. I also seem to remember reading an explaination on here somewhere.

[woodmills1]

Yes pine can be a real pain to cut without waves.  Very often the first and second pass will give waves as the saw passes through alternate wide and narrow sections even if it is sharp.  Hard dead knots will add to the problem, especially if they are located at the outer edges.

Dirt or mud on the outer surface where the blade enters is a major problem.  In a pinch I use the woodmizer small clamp as a scraper to take off the majority of mud.

Dirt on the end of the log on the side the blade enters has to be removed.  If you can't then trim a wafer off the log.

There are many good hints in the posts.

Sharp blade  wide set for pine
diesel and bar oil
slow feed esp on first passes and through knots
correct tension
clean or debark
rotate dirt to exit side
start on small end of log

I will add  use one blade to open up the log and change to fresh one after majority of bark is off

Now like the previous posts said go get some real knoty spruce logs and have lotsa fun.

[Swede]

When i ordered my new 0.035x1 3/8, 1T/ ", 10* Monkey blades I also wanted them a little bit longer.
 There is 1 tooth left set, 1 right set an one tooth not set. This 3 teeth makes a group and I told them to make the blades with just whole groups.
I don´t know what it makes if the blade have lack of f.ex.one left set tooth.

Have just used one of the new blades yet but think this thin blades cut good in soft wood, have used some  0.038x1 1/4 earlier.

Swede.

[Tom]

Swede,
The only reason to use "whole sets" is if you are setting your own blades. Having full sets makes sure you don't pass your starting point and set teeth the wrong way. It also lets you start anywhere in the blade.

Having the blade the right length so that the saw can properly tension it is the most important.

.035 blades are recommended by manufacturers for sawmills with less than 15 horsepower.  They don't requiree as many horses to drive them but they usually don't last long nor are able to withstand aggressive sawing when used in a larger saw.

[bull]

cleaning logs, get a good power washer, start with a garden hose... if its light mud.. if its gravel.... don't even take the log.
water power even 40 psi will clean most small rocks out of the bark, I also have a lat shovel w/ shapened blade  and an ads for chopping out small stuff.
My mill has a debaker but I still wash down if there is dirt.

Start at the wood lot, keep the logs out of the dirt from the start.

As for wavey cut slow down feed and power up. keep the blade cool, Lube it.... I cut 50-75 thousand feet of pine a year and have very little if any wavey wood.

Spruce is a pain in the a$$ and will be wavey because the blade will heat very quickly, kwwp the water flowwing...