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Help me choose options for a WM LT40HDG28

Started by pnyberg, September 17, 2009, 02:23:38 PM

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pnyberg

I just finished meeting with a lawyer to talk about setting up an LLC for a portable sawmill business.  Since he offered no reasons to think this was an impractical idea from a legal point-of-view (like maybe sawmills have been outlawed in my town), I guess there's nothing to keep me from moving forward.

As mentioned in the title, I've decided on a new Wood-Mizer LT40 Hydraulic with the 28 HP gas engine.  I'm going to be introducing a lot of uncertainty in my life in the next few months, and I decided that the savings potential of buying used isn't worth the additional uncertainty that comes with buying pre-owned equipment. 

But buying new means that your get to (or have to) pick your mill accessories.   I'm thinking I want to keep things simple (and cheap) to start with.  If this venture is successful, the mill can buy its own accessories down the road.  But that doesn't mean I want to be stupid about it, or penny wise -- pound foolish.

According to the WM website the promotions in effect through Sep 30 for the LT40HDG28 include a free LubeMizer or AutoClutch, and the Debarker for about half price ($795 down from $1,595).  The configurator doesn't seem to have these promotions programmed in, but I'm assuming I'm interpreting the promotion correctly.

Based on this, here is what I'm thinking:


AutoClutchFree  I'd rather waste lube than wear out my sholder
Debarker$  795.00  Reduced from $1,595.00
2 Additional Hyd Side Supports  $  125.00  It wouldn't take many short logs to make this seem worth the price
Console Cover$   30.00
Engine Cover$   80.00
Parts Pak$  436.15
Spare Tire$  125.00  Can this be mounted on the mill anywhere where it wouldn't be in the way?
Blades - Flat pack of 15$  312.00  .045 x 1.25 x 9°
Total$1,903.15

Other options that I could see myself wanting later are Manual Board Return, LubeMizer, and Accuset.  The configurator doesn't say whether the Accuset can be added as a retrofit.  Does anyone know?

Any other input is welcome too.

Thanks,
    Peter
No longer milling

ronwood

Peter,

I recently bought the Woodmizer's latest version of Simple Setworks. It might be something to consider.

Ron
Sawing part time mostly urban logs -St. Louis/Warrenton, Mo.
LT40HG25 Woodmizer Sawmill
LX885 New Holland Skidsteer

Magicman

Everyone will have a little different take on this but anyway here's mine.

Debarker.  Absolutely

Side Supports.  Not for me.  I saw few short logs.  When raising and lowering the  supports, they  tend to catch on irregularities.  (Such as knots or limbs)  Adding 2 more "catchers" would be a pain for me.

Parts Pak.  ??  WM ships replacement parts out so promptly that the down time is minimal.  A couple of B57 belts and you are good to go. 

Spare Tire.  A flat could be a possibility, but in over 7 years of traveling, I've had no problem.  I did replace both of them a couple of years ago.

Setworks.  Not on your list but definitely on mine.

Saw Contract.  Draw up a "Saw Contract" and have your lawyer look at it.  (Mine is down on page 4 I think)

Good Luck,  Magicman...... 8)
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

Bibbyman

Quote from: Magicman on September 17, 2009, 03:10:37 PM
Side Supports.  Not for me.  I saw few short logs.  When raising and lowering the  supports, they  tend to catch on irregularities.  (Such as knots or limbs)  Adding 2 more "catchers" would be a pain for me.

Good Luck,  Magicman...... 8)

Lower your back supports before you push the log up against them and the problem with catching on protrusions is not nearly as bad.

Four back supports are a help with even 8' logs but even more so if you saw a steady diet of logs 7' and shorter. 

Not having four back supports is the deal killer on moving up to the LT50 or LT70.   Mary says four back supports are worth any and all advantages that the LT50 or LT70 has over the LT40!
Wood-Mizer LT40HDE25 Super 25hp 3ph with Command Control and Accuset.
Sawing since '94

Brad_S.

I've never owned a Woodmizer but I owned 2 mills of another brand and here is what I found.
First mill was 24 hp gas, second was 30 hp diesel. HUGE difference in torque, fuel consumption and maintenance. Consider a diesel.
If upgrading from 1 1/4" to 1 1/2" blades is an option, definitely do it.
De barker-absolutely!
I spanned the space between posts with a board when doing short logs and it worked fine.
"Life is what happens to you while you're busy making other plans." J. Lennon

Tom

Of those options you are considering, here is my take.

AutoClutch Free   I'd rather waste lube than wear out my sholder (definite yes)
Debarker $  795.00   Reduced from $1,595.00 (even with one I seldom use it, still, at 1/2 price I'd consider it.)
2 Additional Hyd Side Supports   $  125.00   It wouldn't take many short logs to make this seem worth the price (This is another definite. They sit there and don't do anything until you need them and then you find that nothing else works as fast or as good.)
Console Cover $   30.00 
Engine Cover $   80.00 
Parts Pak $  436.15 
Spare Tire $  125.00   Can this be mounted on the mill anywhere where it wouldn't be in the way?
Blades - Flat pack of 15 $  312.00   .045 x 1.25 x 9°
Total $1,903.15

Reasoning for those marked out:
The covers I have were used when the mill was new to me, but stored after a couple of months. They are a nuisance if the mill is active.
The parts pack.  I would be selective about the parts I bought and let the mill pay for them. A new mill shouldn't need a parts inventory right off of the bat.  While the parts are probably necessary, they aren't necessary from day one.
The spare tire can be purchased from most any tire store as a pre-mount.  You can even find rims and tires, that will fit, in junk yards or alongside the road. Yep, it's nice to have one, but nicer to have a plug kit and little 12v compressor.  Maybe keep a tube in the glove box.

I think I would put the extra money into more blades.
Keep expenditures to a minimum. Buy parts when you need them, then buy two.
Keep a separate account for the mill (or a jar) so that you can tell if it's paying its own way.


scrout

Although Woodmizer does have some screaming deals, the same economic times have put some incredible used machinery on the market.
Woodmizer has a used LT40G28 near you for $13,900.
If you are waving $30k cash around, you could easily find a larger diesel probably including an edger, with relatively few hours.
And don't forget the log handling, the biggest job!

John_Haylow

Although I purchased my mill used the original owner added quite a few options when he ordered the mill. He added, Autoclutch,Lubemizer,Debarker,and Accuset. I also added the extra two back supports
And thanks to Woodmizer for upgrading me to Accuset 2.

I would not want to be without any of these options after using them especially when doing custom sawing. I realize it adds considerable cost to the mill but I think in the long run its well worth it.

John

2004 Wood-Mizer LT40HDG28

backwoods sawyer

Quote from: pnyberg on September 17, 2009, 02:23:38 PM
But that doesn't mean I want to be stupid about it, or penny wise -- pound foolish.

a free LubeMizer or AutoClutch, and the Debarker for about half price ($795 down from $1,595). 

AutoClutchFree  I'd rather waste lube than wear out my sholder
Debarker$  795.00  Reduced from $1,595.00
2 Additional Hyd Side Supports  $  125.00  It wouldn't take many short logs to make this seem worth the price
Console Cover$   30.00
Engine Cover$   80.00
Parts Pak$  436.15
Spare Tire$  125.00  Can this be mounted on the mill anywhere where it wouldn't be in the way?
Blades - Flat pack of 15$  312.00  .045 x 1.25 x 9°
Total$1,903.15

Other options that I could see myself wanting later are Manual Board Return, LubeMizer, and Accuset.  The configurator doesn't say whether the Accuset can be added as a retrofit.  Does anyone know?

Any other input is welcome too.

Thanks,
    Peter
Well now that you have figured out the legal question, write up a realistic business plan.
Free auto clutch-Good bonus.
Debarker (mud saw) at that price even if you find you do not use it much it would be worth having.
2 extra side supports- they are handy (I am not sure where Bibbyman is coming from as my LT-70 has 4 (two hydraulic and 2 manual) and woodmizer has an add on kit to make them all hydraulic)
Console and engine covers. Yes if out in the weather no if parked under cover. The sun can be more damaging then the rain and snow.
Parts pack and spare tire, get them as needed
15 saws and custom sawing at least get a second box you will go thru them faster then you may think, remember that when doing your business plan. You can work up to where you keep 40-50 saws. If you can run 1 1/2 " saws then go that rout. The wider saws are not as cheap but that comes back to you statement about pound-foolish. To start off with you may want to order a box each of two different hook angles, one for hardwoods and one for softwoods.
Manual board return-wait and see.
Lubemizer-either get it, or fabricate up one of your own.
Accuset-get it if you can

Don't be to shy of buying used, heck if you buy a used one from woodmizer they will have gone through it and made all necessary repairs, and they know what they are looking for. For the price of a new mill, you can get a whole lot more mill when buying used and when it comes to custom sawing you will be glad to have every feature that you have on the biggest mill you could get.
Good luck on your decision, and enjoy the process. 8)   
Backwoods sawyer
Backwoods Custom Milling Inc.
100% portable. . Oregons largest portable sawmill service, serving all of Oregon, from our Backwoods to yours..sawing since 1991

Bibbyman

Quote from: backwoods sawyer on September 17, 2009, 06:54:17 PM
2 extra side supports- they are handy (I am not sure where Bibbyman is coming from as my LT-70 has 4 (two hydraulic and 2 manual) and woodmizer has an add on kit to make them all hydraulic)
 
Backwoods sawyer

I'm coming from my sawmill that now has 4 POWER back supports.  We were sawing hundreds and hundreds of short logs and having an LT40 Super with Command Control and then having to walk around and adjust the two center manual back supports was - well,  foolish to the extreme.  Like having a Corvette with wooden wheels.

I've looked at the LT70 back support system and have not seen an easy way to connect the power supports with the manual supports.  I know WM has worked at some way to provide more than two supports but have not come out with a product with more than two power back supports yet.

There is a conversion kit for the newer LT40 hydraulic mills. I sure don't know of a conversion kit for the LT50 or LT70 that would link in the manual supports to make the power supports.
Wood-Mizer LT40HDE25 Super 25hp 3ph with Command Control and Accuset.
Sawing since '94

Magicman

It really boils down to what your market is, and what lengths you saw.  I've probably sawed 1/2 dozen logs that were less than 8 1/2' logs during the last couple of years.  When customers call, I always caution them to be sure and cut the 8 footers 8 1/2 to 9 feet.  Surely makes it a lot easier on me...... ;D
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

ladylake

If your going to be cutting large hardwood get the 30+  hp diesel, it's a huge improvement over a 28 hp gas and runs way cheaper. If mostly softwood the 28 hp gas works ok.   Computer setworks really speeds up production and quality.     Steve
Timberking B20  18000  hours +  Case75xt grapple + forks+8" snow bucket + dirt bucket   770 Oliver   Lots(too many) of chainsaws, Like the Echo saws and the Stihl and Husky     W5  Case loader   1  trailers  Wright sharpener     Suffolk  setter Volvo MCT125c skid loader

Dan_Shade

I like the hydraulic powered center backstops (the bibby-mod)  :)  but I prefer 10' logs so that it's easy to use the rollers to take the taper out.  short logs (under 8') are a pain.  If I'm keeping logs for myself, I like them 12'

Debarker is worth every penny, as is autoclutch.  I have the old setworks, would be lost without it. 

I also splurged a few years ago for the lubemizer, I like that too.  keeps everything a lot cleaner than dribbling water all over the place.

a second fuel can is nice too.

I'd recommend buying everything that you are comfortable in buying.  Good luck!
Woodmizer LT40HDG25 / Stihl 066 alaskan
lots of dull bands and chains

There's a fine line between turning firewood into beautiful things and beautiful things into firewood.

djoslin

Before you fork out $26,000 plus tax look for a good used one. I purchased a 2008 LT40HDG28  a month ago that had 15 hours on it for 40% less than a new one. There are deals out there, like I said in another post last night it is a buyer market all across the USA, now is the time to buy equipment for the future if you have the cash. I like new shiney stuff but the used market is good right now.

I'm with scrout on this one check out the used one wood-mizer is selling.

Djoslin

backwoods sawyer

Bibbyman you may want to check with woodmizer as they sent me info on a conversion form 2 hydraulic to 4 hydraulic back stops about 6months to a year ago and I am running an LT-70, either they sent me the wrong info or it is available on the LT-70. It was around a $350.00 up grade. I passed on it because not all my logs that I mill have the knots trimmed nice and tight. Two dogs hang up enough having all 4 up would be more hang ups. Besides when I mill short logs they are usually high dollar hardwoods so a little extra care is not a real issue. In your situation I can see why you would want all 4 dogs working together, as it would save a whole lot of steps, as well as making it so there is less worry about hitting a manual dog that is just a bit to high.

Pnyburg
Being a bit on the gimpy side, a feature that was important to me in looking for a mill was the command control as you will find that you will be doing a whole lot of walking back and forth if you are custom milling and putting a lot of hours on your mill. Beside you will get plenty of exercise with the rest of the work that is involved.
Backwoods Custom Milling Inc.
100% portable. . Oregons largest portable sawmill service, serving all of Oregon, from our Backwoods to yours..sawing since 1991

Brucer

I upgraded to a basic LT40HDG28 in 2006. I ordered it with the debarker, console cover & separate engine cover, and a spare fuel tank. I wouldn't give up any of those. The extra fuel tank is great -- I can refill the empty tank on the way home at the end of the day. But it turned out to be useful in other ways. Eventually the corners of one tank started to crack from UV exposure; I didn't have to wait for a replacement. And a couple of years ago someone stole a tank right off the mill >:( -- again, I didn't lose any production.

I later added an autoclutch. Should have bought the machine with it.

Still later I added two of the newer style quick-adjust legs. If I were still doing mobile work I'd put on a complete set.

I also added a drag-back last year. I didn't bother with the manual option designed for the LT40 -- I bought the powered version for the LT40 Super. Apparently these aren't supposed to fit the LT40 ... nonsense. The only thing missing is the wiring from the console to the power head. I solved this by "borrowing" the pre-installed wires for the lube mizer. I suggest waiting before you add this one -- I ran the mill for 2 years before I figured out my optimum layout, and only then did it make sense to add the dragback.

I decided not to go with a full-blown lubemizer, but I did purchase the solenoid valve that shuts off the flow of water whenever the power head isn't moving forward. Having already "borrowed" the lubemizer wires, I had to use the pre-installed wire for the laser option.

No spare tire -- never needed it.

No parts pack. I always keep a set of filters on hand for my next service. And I use the guidelines in the manual to order parts shortly before they "might" fail. Any time I lose or break a bolt, I order extra replacements.

Powered middle side stops depends on your market. It's an easy add-on if you need it.

I plan to switch over to 1-1/2" blades from the 1-1/4". I will also probably switch to stellite when I do.

Now, my NEXT mill ... naw, we won't talk about that ;D.
Bruce    LT40HDG28 bandsaw
"Complex problems have simple, easy to understand wrong answers."

sparks

There is no upgrade to make the manual side supports on an LT70 hydraulic. What ever information Backwood sawyer received was wrong. The info he was given was for a Super mill only. We have no kit and no plans to create one for the LT70. I wanted to clarify this info so that folks are not looking for something that is not made. Thanks
\"America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves.\" Abraham Lincoln

TheWoodsman

If you are doing this as a business I would highly recommend the diesel upgrade as it makes a big difference especially in hardwoods.  For normal size softwoods, the 28hp gas is fine.

If you plan to travel much, the spare tire is cheap piece of mind.  Getting this "as needed" doesn't make much sense when you are parked on the side of the interstate or broke down in the middle of somebody's woods.

The parts pack . . . well, if you have the money for an inventory of spares then it's fine.  If you are bootstrapping the startup then skip it for now and invest later when you've racked up some hours on the machine.  Same thing on the setworks.  You can add these now or later but I'd suggest it for a business.

Your other options look good to me.  They match what I have.

Last, if you really want to make lots of lumber (and additional $$$ to boot), invest in a straight line rip saw when you can afford it.

2009 Wood-Mizer LT40HDG28, WM-DH4000 dry kiln, & lots of other great "toys"

I am the Woodsman, the four-wheelin', tree-farmin', custom-furniture-makin' descendant of Olaf "The Woodcutter" Ingjaldsson.

pineywoods

Hey leave yourself some wiggle room to add stuff later, otherwise you may find yourself with options that you don't use. I see no mention of material handling tools. I hope you don't plan to run this mill with no equipment to load and move logs, slabs, and lumber. That's a sure fire way to bust up your back, fingers, feet etc..
1995 Wood Mizer LT 40, Liquid cooled kawasaki,homebuilt hydraulics. Homebuilt solar dry kiln.  Woodmaster 718 planner, Kubota M4700 with homemade forks and winch, stihl  028, 029, Ms390
100k bd ft club.Charter member of The Grumpy old Men

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