Need advice!

[Forestry Man]

Hi everybody,

I am 22 year old student on my second year or production engineering degree. I have a DIY soul in me and I have decided to go with homemade sawmill to start making my own money and proveing my engineering skills. I have  read numerous articles and threads of bandsaw mill and think despite my low budget I am able to construct one. Still there is one but before I make my final decision. Ltely I found for myself a swingmill and I like it a much, cause it's simpler to build and looks like the cost of the blades in total would be cheaper. If I am wrong, let me know.

Anyway I am living in Estonia and we doesn't have big trees at all. The biggest I would cut on my mill would not be bigger than 25 inches in diameter and most of them would be much less than this. So as I have understood everybody recomend bandsaw mill in this case. What I am concerned is bladelife and it's cost. Their quite expensive around here, and I have read people saying that they change them in every 2-3 hours. Why exactly aren't people using swingmill with small logs? Couldn't I build one which is as good as bandmill on smaller logs?

I need some advice from more experienced people to unravel my messed up thoughts. Thanks a lot!

[beenthere]

Welcome "Forestry Man" to the Forum.

Regards the small logs on a swingmill, do you have a thought or plan as to how you would saw the small logs? Seems dogging them once and making all the cuts without releasing the dogs would be one way to handle the small logs. If you have to turn the log after each cut, then the small logs become costly to saw. Also, there isn't much lumber to pay the bills in the small logs.

What might be your plan?

We look forward to having you on the forum.

[Ianab]

Swingblade mills will cut smaller logs just fine, just they have no huge advantage over a bandmill, like they do with the bigger logs.

You probably want to give a bit more thought to your log bunks, dogs and log loading as that what takes the time  If you are cutting big logs that take an hour or more to saw, then 10min spent moving the mill to a new log and lining things up is no big deal. Small logs, 10 mins sawing, 10 mins setup, you don't get so much done in a day. You want to finish the log, throw off the bottom slab, roll the next one into place and be sawing again in a couple of minutes.

Blade costs should be less, but you will need a diamond wheel sharpener so that you can touch up the tips on the mill. Where the bandmill guys change bands after a couple of hours, we have to break out the sharpener and freshen up the carbide tips.

Ian

[ladylake]

 
With band mills you'll get more boards out of a log due to the kerf, not many more as a swing mill kerf isn't huge either, another plus is being able to saw wide boards and natural edge slabs the everyone seems to want now. If you get a bandblade sharpener blade cost is real low, sending them can get expensive.  Certainly nothing wrong with swing mills, for sure if you saw a lot of dimensional lumber.    Steve

[Sprucegum]

Welcome  8)
You are on the right track; thinking about your blades and maintenance costs before you build the mill. The build itself is a one-time cost but those blades cost you every time so you want to find what is available and most economical in your area and work with that.

I have noticed that every kind of mill can do a good job if the operator has a good head on his shoulders  ;)

[Tom]

It's real easy to make the assumption that the most important part of a sawmill is the blade.  I won't take any importance away from it, but it is only a part of an entire package.

You will find that the problems all sawmills have with little logs is dogging them.   Dogging being the term that is use to reference the devices that hold the log on the mill.  Dogs are made from various devices, including spikes, wedges, fences, clamps and even weights.  The blade of a mill imposes huge forces of motion on the log and will roll it over or even send it flying if the log isn't locked in place securely enough.  Along with the fact that small logs don't contain much product, this is one of the main reasons that sawyers stay away from them.

There is also the other end of the scenario where logs are too large for a mill.  This is usually because the log must be placed on the bed of the mill and straddled by a moving blade or the log moved past a spinning blade.   This log handling is what defines a log as being too large.  A swing mill can handle a large log because it isn't limited by the log size, only the ability to set the mill up over the log.  Some swing mills have even been set up on top of huge logs, whittling them to the ground as the mill is re-setup in the process.

Bands are used to produce large boards and small boards without manipulating the blade, as you might have to do with circular blades.  They are generally replaced and sharpened off-site to facilitate the least amount of downtime during production sawing.

Circle mills are generally sharpened on the machine because their removal is more of a major undertaking than the replacement of a band.  Circle blades on swing frames are limited to removing boards less then twice the half of their diameter in multiple passes.  Circle mills with carriages are limited to removing boards that are less than half of their diameter.

The simpliest of mills would be the circle mill with a log carriage.  The other two designs require more engineering.  All of them require that much attention be paid to safety and the security of the blade.  All  sawmill blades will produce projectiles and even become one itself if it happens to come off of the machine.  Part of the safety of a bandmill is that the band is usually encased in a shroud and the rest of it in the log.  The circle mills, while have some security from being in the log, depend mostly on a shroud and some rather robust engineering to keep it on the shaft.

Please don't approach the building of a sawmill with the idea that it is a simple device.  That is how machines are built that kill people.  Even in its most simple form (a circle mill with a log carriage) sawmills have a lot of historical engineering and tuning behind them.  They aren't just a spinning piece of metal with sharp devices attached to the edge or rim.

This forum has a lot of information about the building of all types of mills.  Take the time to search and research each.  Though it might seem that they are a rough and robust device, even the heaviest depend on finesse for their accuracy.

[Slabs]

Them white whiskers and hair is there for a reason.  The red shirt is to get your attention.

Y'all pay attention to the old master.  I do.

[Ianab]

All of them require that much attention be paid to safety and the security of the blade.

For sure.

Last thing you want is for that circle blade to become a 22" steel frisbee, it could literally cut you in 1/2.

And they WILL throw assorted debris in random directions occasionally, no matter how careful you are. Guards and some protective gear are recommended for a good reason.

Not trying to put you off, just reminding you to be careful out there.

Ian

[Forestry Man]

First, I'd like to thank the whole community for a feedback like this. I' am still new in sawmilling but I'm ready to educate myself.

I have ultimate respect for safety purposes and I am sure I don't do something stupid, but I love to see how you guys point out safety first rather then gave me advice how to build a mill. If I ever try to manufacture my own mill, then You get the details about it first. Also I am quite beginner in English, so thanks for explaining what the terms like dogging means.

Anyway I got the point why swingmill is more efficient on big logs. But before I get more deeper to the clamping techniques and finding a right solution I should look up my local blade suppliers and see how much different blades cost over here. Maybe one or other blade is too expensive for me anyway(gotta remember that I am from Estonia and I am just a student   ;) ).

Thanks again to everybody!

[woodman58]

For those people who didn't know (including myself), Republic of Estonia, is a state in the Baltic region of Northern Europe.

[Forestry Man]

For those people who didn't know (including myself), Republic of Estonia, is a state in the Baltic region of Northern Europe.

Thanks !

If there is any additional information about the forum  I should know, please let me know!