2009 LT40 manual updated to include dual hydraulic pumps.......

Bandmill Bandit · October 25, 2015, 10:38:43 PM

Do you have an alternator already? FYI the 12 or 15 SI Delcos ran in the Cadillacs and suburbans up to 92 I think, and in heavy trucks as well.

Karam in saskatoon is a good place to get them from if you want rebuilt/new.
I think the one I have running now is out of an 90 sububan. SI 15 108 amp delco.

there is also a mounting plate to fit the GX160 that takes the SI frame delco alternators that is reasonable priced. I am going to to do a rebuild on mine in to a nice frame with the inverter mounted in place with a weather cover over top of every thing, meters and guages included with all the different plug-ins I use with it.

DGK · October 25, 2015, 11:02:58 PM

BB, where do you get the mounting plate from? I have an auto wrecker friend only a mile away so I should have no problem finding an alternator but the mounting plate is another thing. I am hoping to find a direct drive coupling to avoid using belts. Any thoughts?

Bandmill Bandit · October 25, 2015, 11:24:38 PM

Quote from: DGK on October 25, 2015, 11:02:58 PM
BB, where do you get the mounting plate from? I have an auto wrecker friend only a mile away so I should have no problem finding an alternator but the mounting plate is another thing. I am hoping to find a direct drive coupling to avoid using belts. Any thoughts?

Ill find the link for that plate.

I did some math on the direct drive mount which is also available but then you have to run that GX 160 wide ope to get the RPM up where you need it AND it eliminates the external fan so your back to a the cooling issue.

Here is a pretty good web site that has access to a lot of components to do the build. http://theepicenter.com/emergency-power/homemade-generators/vertical-belt-drive.html

DGK · October 25, 2015, 11:29:27 PM

Thanks BB, the one thing that I hope is a non-issue is that my GX160 has a threaded shaft on the output.

Bandmill Bandit · October 25, 2015, 11:32:36 PM

Quote from: DGK on October 25, 2015, 11:29:27 PM
Thanks BB, the one thing that I hope is a non-issue is that my GX160 has a threaded shaft on the output.

As in threaded external or a bolt hole in the middle?
Post a pic. There are ways to solve every issue!
The CS144 frame is a good one to use as well. Chevy caprice 88 through 96 will give you from 105 amp to 140 amp options.

DGK · October 25, 2015, 11:39:52 PM

Threaded external. Sorry no pics at this time. I'll try to get a few later.

Bandmill Bandit · October 25, 2015, 11:44:17 PM

Have to do some digging on that but I am pretty sure Honda will have an adapter kit for that shaft.

Check that threaded piece. it may be a stainless adapter on the normal keyed shaft.

DGK · October 25, 2015, 11:53:47 PM

No such luck. It is a 5/8" threaded end of the crankshaft. Actually, quite corroded from being inside the water pump. I should be able to clean it up and figure something out.

Bandmill Bandit · October 25, 2015, 11:57:01 PM

so its threaded on the end to take a fine threaded nut that holds the pump impeller that is tapered with a half moon key in the tapered part of the shaft?

BC Bearing should be able to solve that one for you.

You need a 4 to 4.5 inch pully on the motor. I am using a 4 Inch aluminium right now but have a 4.5 cast that will go on when that one craters.

DGK · October 27, 2015, 10:35:19 PM

So the project continues with some good progress. I have taken a Honda GX160 water pump and am in the process of converting it to a DC generator. The threaded shaft of the engine needed a 5" cast pulley to be bored out and threaded to fit. I bought a 60 amp alternator that will run a 3" cast pulley giving me 4166 rpm at the alternator when running the engine at 2500rpm. The alternator pulley needed to be bored out as well to fit the alternator shaft. Both of these rpm's work well with the torque curve of the engine and the power output curve of the alternator. I chose to run only a 60 amp alternator after speaking with a mechanic that specializes in DC electrical systems. His advice was that any larger of alternator would load the engine too much (5hp engine), and it would be better to have a smaller alternator working harder.

Today I rewired the hydraulic solenoids. I have chosen to wire the internal battery to pump number one (the original) and have the external battery mounted in the old small hydraulic box power pump number 2. This allows me to run a single pump off the sawmill battery and the second pump only if the external battery and DC generator are connected. To prevent one reservoir from overfilling, I capped the tank that had a faster return on pump 2. No fluid leakage so far but it was only a quick test using pump number one. I am hoping that this configuration works. It will keep the batteries separated.

DGK · October 28, 2015, 11:15:19 PM

Hooked up the generator to the mill today. Found out that the engine wouldn't start with the belt engaged as the alternator starts producing power right away. No minimum rpm cut-in speed I am guessing. Rigged a means of having the belt loose to start and then engage once the engine rpm's are up. Surprisingly, the battery voltage on a single pump with it's own battery and alternator is still dropping to 11 - 11.5 volts when the hydraulics are actuated. This is with a new group 27 dual purpose battery. Has anyone ever checked their voltage when actuating the hydraulics? I would be interested in hearing what others are experiencing.

Bandmill Bandit · October 29, 2015, 12:03:27 AM

Yes i check mine periodically and it is 12.4 when the head is on the copper bar and 11.8 when the head is NOT on the bar. I am set up so that all the power is live to all the functions all the time.

DGK · October 29, 2015, 12:26:26 AM

Thanks BB.

Kbeitz · October 29, 2015, 02:12:24 AM

Quote from: DGK on October 28, 2015, 11:15:19 PM
Hooked up the generator to the mill today. Found out that the engine wouldn't start with the belt engaged as the alternator starts producing power right away. No minimum rpm cut-in speed I am guessing. Rigged a means of having the belt loose to start and then engage once the engine rpm's are up. Surprisingly, the battery voltage on a single pump with it's own battery and alternator is still dropping to 11 - 11.5 volts when the hydraulics are actuated. This is with a new group 27 dual purpose battery. Has anyone ever checked their voltage when actuating the hydraulics? I would be interested in hearing what others are experiencing.

You could put a switch on the alternator to shut off the output untill it starts.

Magicman · October 29, 2015, 08:13:44 AM

I recently added this so that I could constantly monitor my battery voltage. Voltmeter

It is amazing to see how much load the hydraulic pumps place on the battery and how that alternator is constantly doing it's job.

DGK · October 29, 2015, 10:03:33 AM

Thanks Magicman, do you recall what the voltage reads when actuating your hydraulics?

terrifictimbersllc · October 29, 2015, 10:19:14 AM

I added 12V lights to monitor voltage to both pumps when a hydraulic lever is actuated. One not on, probably means one of the solenoids has failed. Both not on probably the micro switch. Dim means something wrong with battery, alternator or voltage somewhere.

https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php/topic,7789.msg934188.html#msg934188

Bandmill Bandit · October 29, 2015, 01:07:50 PM

MM wil that gauge read amperage as well?

Magicman · October 29, 2015, 01:36:21 PM

Quote from: DGK on October 29, 2015, 10:03:33 AMThanks Magicman, do you recall what the voltage reads when actuating your hydraulics?

No, but I do know that it reads 12.6 after the sawmill has sat idle for a few days, and ~11.6-8 with the hydraulic pumps running without the engine running. 14.3-4 with the engine running without using the hydraulics. I'll have to pay attention to what it reads with the engine running and using the hydraulics.

Magicman · October 29, 2015, 01:38:25 PM

Quote from: Bandmill Bandit on October 29, 2015, 01:07:50 PMMM wil that gauge read amperage as well?

No volts only. I have to pull out the "clamp on" to read amps.

Bandmill Bandit · October 29, 2015, 02:29:47 PM

Quote from: Magicman on October 29, 2015, 01:38:25 PM
Quote from: Bandmill Bandit on October 29, 2015, 01:07:50 PMMM wil that gauge read amperage as well?
No volts only. I have to pull out the "clamp on" to read amps.

There are a couple of gauges available that will do both but i have never seen one in use. I thought maybe you had got one.

Magicman · October 29, 2015, 10:08:15 PM

You made me go and look and I did find some dual units that read up to 100 amps. There may be some available that would read higher. It looks like they use a shunt and read the slight voltage drop across it and transcribe that into amps.

DGK · October 30, 2015, 12:43:13 AM

A bit more work went into the DC Generator build today. I installed a voltmeter, a switch to be able to turn the alternator on & off so that I can get the Honda GX160 engine started (thanks Kbeitz) and a marine battery selector switch to the aux battery housing so that I can disconnect power from the mill. While using the mill today with the system all connected, I noticed that the load on the DC generator was too high with it connected to the aux battery and one pump only, so I rewired it to be connected to the mills electrical system as well. It dropped the load on the generator and transferred some of it to the mill. You sure can hear the load on both when using the hydraulics. I may try to get an ammeter to check the draw on the new pump.

I asked DC specialist about the voltage drop to around 11 volts when actuating the hydraulics. He said that a drop to 11 volts shouldn't be a problem if it is only momentary and recovers quickly (which it does). Having the dual pumps as well as changing the up/down pulley's ratio has made the mill perform much better. Suggestions or comments are always appreciated. :-)

Bandmill Bandit · October 30, 2015, 01:56:29 PM

Quote from: DGK on October 30, 2015, 12:43:13 AM
A bit more work went into the DC Generator build today. I installed a voltmeter, a switch to be able to turn the alternator on & off so that I can get the Honda GX160 engine started (thanks Kbeitz) and a marine battery selector switch to the aux battery housing so that I can disconnect power from the mill. While using the mill today with the system all connected, I noticed that the load on the DC generator was too high with it connected to the aux battery and one pump only, so I rewired it to be connected to the mills electrical system as well. It dropped the load on the generator and transferred some of it to the mill. You sure can hear the load on both when using the hydraulics. I may try to get an ammeter to check the draw on the new pump.

I asked DC specialist about the voltage drop to around 11 volts when actuating the hydraulics. He said that a drop to 11 volts shouldn't be a problem if it is only momentary and recovers quickly (which it does). Having the dual pumps as well as changing the up/down pulley's ratio has made the mill perform much better. Suggestions or comments are always appreciated. :-)

Add a little garden tractor battery to generator. Eliminates that surge issue for the most part
you can call me if you want to chat about it further. I have a switch on mine that shuts off power to the alternator AND kills the engine. works great
an alternator with out a battery is a PITA. Send me a PM if you like

Magicman · October 30, 2015, 05:58:50 PM

Quote from: DGK on October 29, 2015, 10:03:33 AMThanks Magicman, do you recall what the voltage reads when actuating your hydraulics?

I watched today, but it's not easy to watch two different things at the same time. Especially when one of them is what you are supposed to be watching. (Hydraulics) Anyway, it depends upon the hydraulic operation and how long that will take. Just moving the clamp, etc. it would drop to ~13.5. Quick turning, it would be ~12.6. Heavy turning or loading it went to ~11.8. In each instance, as soon as the operation was completed, it jumped back up to ~14.4.