Tree Farmer c7

Fether Hardwoods · November 25, 2015, 12:04:45 AM

Going to look at a Tree Farmer c7, it has a 4-53 detroit in it with 1200 hrs on a rebuild, believed to be a 70' machine, any advice I.E. things to look out for on that model.

Thanks

timberlinetree · November 25, 2015, 05:11:33 AM

Look at the center and cradle pins. Use the blade to help check. Look for stress cracks and take your time looking and try out the winch with a big log. Good luck.

Fether Hardwoods · November 25, 2015, 08:02:42 AM

Thanks timberlinetree, skidders are a new thing for me so I am going in without alot of first hand knowledge, I have been around machines my whole life, I just didnt know specific points of interest on skidders.

Thanks

BargeMonkey · November 25, 2015, 08:37:34 AM

You can tell in the first 20 mins if something is beat to death. Always try and get there while the machine is stone cold, check the fluids yourself, tell the owner to wait if you have to. Nothing wrong with older equipment, if you can do alot of the repairs your ahead of the newer stuff sometimes. Steering pins, center pins, don't just drive it back and forth 20 ft and think it's tight, back onto a log, pick the front end with the blade and check the cradle and blade pins. My biggest turn off are poor maintenance and cobbed wiring, if you see them jumping it and it's not because of a poor battery look close, I have a friend who bought a machine that "needed some love" and it burned a few hours after getting it home because they rigged the wiring to get it running. A master disconnect switch is worth the money.

C5C Tree Farmer · November 25, 2015, 09:19:29 AM

If the sellers allows it pull the oil level plugs on the planetaries. If the magnet has a long "icicle" of metal shaving on it it will need work. If they look bone dry on the inside then make sure the gearsets haven't run dry also. Lift the front wheels off the ground to take the pressure off the driveshafts and check the drive yokes on both axles for up and down movement. If there is any the pinion bearings are bad...if there is a lot there is a good chance the carrier is bad also.

coxy · November 25, 2015, 06:33:02 PM

if the motor is worm when you get there leave it be there is a problem you want to start a Detroit bone cold if it starts with out fluid good if you have to start it with it leave it be or talk him down my need a rebuild IF THEY DONT LET YOU TRY IT OUT RUN AS FAST AS YOU CAN TO YOUR TRUCK :D :D :D

Autocar · November 25, 2015, 07:12:34 PM

My C7T Treefarmer has a 4/53 also mine has not more then two hundred hours on the transmission and detroit rebuild. When the temperature reaches 40 degrees it won't start with out eather. I installed a block heater when I had it rebuilt and if its plugged in it will start like a summer day. I carry a gernerator in the truck and have to plug it in on the job the colder it gets the longer it has to be on the generator. Would I buy another skidder with a detroit no way! As far as the tractor a C7 is built like a tank and Ive never grappled a tree length log I couldn't pull but always cut tree length large logs in half. Ive always tried to take care of what I have.

chester_tree _farmah · November 25, 2015, 07:42:47 PM

They look like tanks.

coxy · November 26, 2015, 06:43:25 PM

Quote from: Autocar on November 25, 2015, 07:12:34 PM
My C7T Treefarmer has a 4/53 also mine has not more then two hundred hours on the transmission and detroit rebuild. When the temperature reaches 40 degrees it won't start with out eather. I installed a block heater when I had it rebuilt and if its plugged in it will start like a summer day. I carry a gernerator in the truck and have to plug it in on the job the colder it gets the longer it has to be on the generator. Would I buy another skidder with a detroit no way! As far as the tractor a C7 is built like a tank and Ive never grappled a tree length log I couldn't pull but always cut tree length large logs in half. Ive always tried to take care of what I have.

I would get some one to come look at that 453 I have one that will start at 0 with no help I also HAD a 353 that at 80 had to have help to start but it was shot 1-2 gal of oil a day when we tore it down it looked like it was new in side there was no goo any where must be all the new oil that was run in it the last month it ran

Gearbox · November 26, 2015, 08:11:38 PM

I agree with autocar I have a fresh 3-71 on the mill and if it 's below 40 it will start but you will crank it a long time . 1 little bump of either and it starts right up . Gearbox

Autocar · November 26, 2015, 08:13:41 PM

I agree with you Coxy but near impossible to find anyone that knows anything about detroits . All the old guys that worked on them around here are eather dead or tell you they don't remember much about them anymore which is sad.

coxy · November 26, 2015, 09:39:15 PM

if you where closer we would help you I feel your pain we started playing with them a few years ago for that reason no one to work on them at first we had trouble keeping them together we wanted more but after a while we settled for a happy medium :D after you get to know them there not hard to work on only had 1 run away with its self and came apart rebuilder (my buddy) had one to many barley beverages and left out a part or 2 :D

David-L · November 28, 2015, 07:43:41 AM

Sounds like the bases are covered here. Detroits are actually amazing engines if run right and you use the right mono-grade CF-2 oils. 40 wt in the summer and 30wt in the winter with a block heater. i have a tight 353 and use maybe a qt a week in the motor. If I switch to a multi grade it blows it out every where. Maybe just my motor but maybe not. C-7 is a biggun. Good luck and make sure its a cold machine as said or walk away and come back when its cold.

Autocar · November 28, 2015, 08:44:53 AM

The last time I ran across someone that was fimilar with 4/53's he told me detroits with a blower and turbo has high comprassion pistons and WON'T start in cold weather unless there plugged in. If thats true or not I don't know.

coxy · November 29, 2015, 07:56:13 AM

that's a new one to me ;D but I will find out the old gent we get our parts from has been a Detroit man for years

coxy · November 29, 2015, 08:40:17 AM

Quote from: Autocar on November 28, 2015, 08:44:53 AM
The last time I ran across someone that was fimilar with 4/53's he told me detroits with a blower and turbo has high comprassion pistons and WON'T start in cold weather unless there plugged in. If thats true or not I don't know.

this is what I found out a turbo 453or a 353 has less compression than a non turbo 17to1 turbo 22to1 non turbo that's what I found in the book hope this helps

HiTech · November 30, 2015, 02:30:52 PM

I have no idea if this pertains to these motors or not. A friend had a hard time starting an engine after a rebuild. It would grind a long time before it fired, sometimes a whiff was needed. He had another mechanic look at it and the injector pump timing was off. It was only one tooth off he said but apparently that was enough. After retiming it it fired right up. Even in cold weather it takes right off now.

beenthere · November 30, 2015, 02:56:57 PM

HiTech

QuoteIt was only one tooth off he said but apparently that was enough.

I would imagine that would do it.. ;D

coxy · November 30, 2015, 05:11:24 PM

a Detroit don't have an injector pump it has a fuel pump there is no way to get that a tooth off maybe he had a Cummings or some thing else and yes a tooth off on an injector pump will give trouble HiTech maybe when they rebuilt your motor they got it a tooth out of time that will make them hard to start its not hard to do we have done a couple times good thing it was our motor and not one we sent out the door

cuznguido · November 30, 2015, 07:40:42 PM

Generally speaking with those old Detroits, hard starting is usually a worn blower or lack of adequate residual pressure on the fuel system. There is a restrictor in the return fuel line that sometimes get left out, and a worn blower is just a worn blower. If there is lots of blowby then an overhaul is the only solution.

Logger RK · January 17, 2016, 08:03:34 PM

I put a New Rebuilt 453 in my TF C7D this last spring. Old one was getting anti freeze in oil & air box. Put new head & gasket set on(head was cracked) put 2gather & still the same. I was thinking maybe cracked sleeve or block. With inspection cam we could c anti dripping down backside of number 4 cyl.With road postings going 2 come off I figured a new rebuild would b faster 2 get up & running. Well after changing oil pan,suction tube,governor,whole rear cover & I'm probly forgetting a few things we got it running. Bad oil pressure right off the start. Company I bought it from sends Detriot Expert. Say my cheap oil pressure gauge junk. They tell me 8psi idling & 25 reved is with in the limits.(which was worse then any of the other Detroit's we have) There gauge said 9 psi idling when warm. The expert forgot his gauge.Next day I talking with manager above psi,I notice there gauge is at 3psi not hooked up.After my insisting on checking the oil pump relief(which the expert said never had a bad one)discover the end of the relief was broke off. Once he fished out the broke off end & put a new one it's got pretty good psi now. Warm idle 20/25 reved warm 60/65. But if it's below 40 it needs a whiff of ether. I checked lift pump press & outlet back pressure & there expert set rack & govenor. I did have 2 point out he had a vise grip still locked on the rack(or rail been a few months & bad memory)when he was adjusting & it didn't idle down fast enough. I have rebuilt a couple 353's & back when I did I talked 2 a different guy that say he was a expert on them. Say he had one he totally rebuilt & was a hard starter took it apart again & shimmed the sleeves I believe? Said that was the prob. Anyone ever hear of that being the hard start prob? Or did it damage motor with that bad relief? Ran probly a total of a hour with bad relief. Coarse expert told me 2 stand on it 2 seat the rings with in that hour.If it's above 40 & touch the button & pops right off. I did tell the manager 2 mark it on the book about that prob if it don't go very long. Think the first 353 I rebuilt went 10,000 hours till I changed it out. Never noticed any shims under any of the sleeves.

ga jones · January 17, 2016, 09:45:16 PM

Injector timing

Logger RK · January 18, 2016, 08:21:45 AM

When u say injector timing I suppose ur talking using the Tool? ( to me I'm not sure y they call it timing the injector since it's just setting the height of injector is allowed 2 go up) which I have the tool,it's a 1.460#. Think I have N45 injectors in it.There expert did that also,I was in the cab but thought it looked like he was doing it right. I've set them on a few others I have. There Expert is the same guy that did the rebuild,could've he got the rear gear timing off one tooth & make it start hard below 40 but seems 2 sound good otherwise?

ga jones · January 18, 2016, 08:54:52 AM

Only if he wanted advanced timing. Does it surge or idle funny? N45 is small for a 453. Should have 50 or 60. The height of the injector determines when it fires. Thus timing in the combustion chamber.If the rebuilder did and Inframe style overhaul he would not have bothered the timing gears.

Logger RK · January 18, 2016, 07:47:01 PM

My core motor they got from me did have N50's. I did suggest swapping my 50's out for the 45's they had in the new motor. But they said no.It seems to idle good & not surge. Just the,less then around 40 degree hard start. Even a couple of 353's I have,have N50's. Think the smaller size injector would be the problem?