Paying a logger to cut,skid, and buck Timber on my farm?

[HappyValley]

I would like to pay a logging crew by the board foot to cut, skid, and buck the timber here on my farm.  If they are contracted by the board foot, then I would give them a 1099 at the end of the year, correct?  If they are contracted and using there own equipment then I do not need to provide workmans comp or any other type of insurance, correct?  All logs will be left here on the farm and I will saw some for lumber and sell the rest to the local sawmill buyers.  I have 200 acres of timber and I am located in Tennessee. Thanks for you thoughts and advice, Jason

[Gearbox]

Same as I posted in the other post . Get a proof of comp .

[Woodhauler]

if you are paying you are the employer. seems like you would have to pay taxes and comp.

[lynde37avery]

I log for private land owners and I buy standing timber.  i pay my own liability. the landowner just collects the pay for stumpage.
if I were to log for the landowner it'd be so much per hr or per thousand of board foot.

[treeslayer2003]

I would like to pay a logging crew by the board foot to cut, skid, and buck the timber here on my farm.  If they are contracted by the board foot, then I would give them a 1099 at the end of the year, correct?  If they are contracted and using there own equipment then I do not need to provide workmans comp or any other type of insurance, correct?  All logs will be left here on the farm and I will saw some for lumber and sell the rest to the local sawmill buyers.  I have 200 acres of timber and I am located in Tennessee. Thanks for you thoughts and advice, Jason

200acres........why do you want the hassle of freight, paper work etc etc? better off to sell the timber to a logger and have your logs yarded in the deal. not many are going to want to do it this way. any that will i'd be leery of.

[coxy]

my 2cents most loggers around here getting paid by the thousand dont care what your woods looks like at the beginning middle or end   it will be smash and crash to get the most BF out a day most will not cut for grade they will just cut for footage so just think if you can cut a 9-10 ft veneer they my cut it 12-14ft to just get the footage something to think about         I did not post this to bash anyone on here that cuts by the thousand some people do take pride in there work but most by me don't give a crap they think for today not next week

[barbender]

We contract cut for mills all the time, however I don't believe we've ever cut for a private party on contract like that. Not saying that we wouldn't, but with private sales we buy the stumpage. Typically on private sales we pay for the wood up front, in this scenario we would be waiting to get finished to get paid, which would give me the jitters. I'm not saying it's something we wouldn't do, it would just be a different type of contract. I think we get around $45-50/cord for harvesting and putting on the landing, that adds up quick if you are keeping all of the wood.

[barbender]

Also, if they are truly contracting and supplying all equipment, you shouldn't be required to carry any insurances or comp. But get a certificate from them to make sure they are, or you could be on the hook if something went wrong. For instance, if Bily Bob logging took the job and his cousin Larry got smashed by a tree, and it turns out BillyBob had no insurance or comp, you could be in a "compromised" situation. You may not be liable, but might cost you everything you have in legal fees proving it.

[petefrom bearswamp]

In the past i have worked with a local logger and paid $150/mbf, Doyle scale, cut skidded and bucked at the landing.
He carries all the necessary insurances.

[pinefeller]

basically you are the "sawmill" so to get the best product you'll have to price logs according to grade. unless you are on a red pine plantation then by the bf would be fine. but your going to have to stand by the slasher and grade every log quickly as it comes off the machine.

ack the more i think about it. id turn down the job because of the potential for aggravation.

trying to get around capital gains tax lol? just have the loggers buy the stumpage and have them leave out some logs for you in lieu of some stumpage.

better yet---if you got 200 acres buy a skidder and be your own logging company. ;D

[killamplanes]

I would say that if you are writing a check than your an employer in this situation (I'm not a lawyer). Your timber paying to have cut for your mill. Better make sure they have comp, insurance etc. 150mbf sounds about right, don't know how well they cut or buck. I've seen these terms here before usually was a disaster. I bought 40k bdft of a landowner that had it custom cut, 2 others bid it. Long story short the custom cutters came up with over 60k. Farmer wrote them a check, and tail lights. He got burnt. Another was they cut, laid it in about a 10ac field, landowner/farmer paid them then decided he was a marketer of logs, well finally got a blocking mill to show up cause he waited 8 months. Alot of good w/o went to waist. He burnt himself on that one. I was paid 100/hour with grapple truck to get them of the field and take to a road ditch so he could farm the field. But alot of loggers can't wait weeks or a month till all scale tickets are back. They want a check every week. We'll on a deal like you have I don't think it's realistic. Good luck. My vote sell it lump sum maybe half this year see how it goes etc. Work a deal for what you want for your mill.

[BargeMonkey]

my 2cents most loggers around here getting paid by the thousand dont care what your woods looks like at the beginning middle or end   it will be smash and crash to get the most BF out a day most will not cut for grade they will just cut for footage so just think if you can cut a 9-10 ft veneer they my cut it 12-14ft to just get the footage something to think about         I did not post this to bash anyone on here that cuts by the thousand some people do take pride in there work but most by me don't give a crap they think for today not next week

That's the truth. 👍 loads per day, if it's in the way run it over, get done get moved. I lost a woodlot to wagner during Irene, one of their guys cut it. Forester marked 200+ cord, if it wasn't beautiful wood it got girdled, logs are cut at the first bump or easiest place possible, it's all about production. Landowner was far from happy, but they cut it how the contract read. 😂
175-210 plus firewood is the going rate out here now. NY is extra special for insurance so I don't even want to throw my opinion out there. It's so easy to get burned looking at it as a logger or landowner. I would talk to a decent forester and ask a couple local loggers, see if prices and stories match. I personally would shy away from a job like this unless the landowner was paying me 20-30mbdft ahead in cash, to many variables.  Has it been cut before ? Do you actually have a rough idea what's on it for footage ?

[Mountaynman]

Brage is right about the insurance here in NY its nuts here are the scenarios as explained to me by the comp people and the folks from the esfpa  I had dropped my comp and had to get it again

    1 if I buy a woodlot on percentage iam working for the landowner need to provide liability and proof of comp
    2 if I buy the same woodlot up front and pay for all trees nothing needed
    3 if I job for a mill comp and liability needed also need proof of comp on file for any independent truckers hauling scrag, firewood or softwood off the same job

Its all about chain of custody of the wood until it gets to its final destination. When u sell wood roadside have a slip and a check when they go on the truck your liability ends there.

It does however raise an interesting question about throwin a load on a truck that is headed to Canada usually have very minimal paperwork and the language barrier with the independent truckers makes it even more difficult.

Like barge says I would want to be paid upfront for half the sale then cut some more as the money comes in

Probably why so many of us have gone to contract cutting for the mills pretty straight forward. Get your landing in, send us a bill. Put your roads in and let me know how many trucks you need each day. Direct deposit in your account weekly. No days of running lines dealing with unruly neighobors just find the back of the lot cut the paint and get them to the road. When your done call me and we will move you to the next one.

[coxy]

your not working for the LO he is a partner if you go on a %that's what I was told  the only time your working for the LO is if he is paying you by the thousand to cut and skid he gives you his check then your his employee   but regardless there is so much gray area of who is what   in the end if something goes wrong there going after who has the most

[mike_belben]

Jason, what county are you in?