Trouble with Alaskan Mill, especially Mini Mill

[danf26]

Hi all,

So Im having a lot of trouble with the chainsaw mill I've been using. I'm using two Granberg Mills, a Mark 2, and a Mini Mill (the Mark 2 cuts horizontally with the bar clamped at both the tip and the base, the Mini Mill cuts vertically with the bar clamped just at the base). They're both used, and the Mini Mill, which is giving me the trouble is actually a little bent. The mills make sense for me in conjunction, but the Mini Mill is making me think twice about using the chainsaw mills at all.

I was milling last week, a beautiful red oak, and everything was going spectacular. I made my first horizontal cut with the Mark 2, and it was a bueat. But the cuts I made with the Mini Mill, "walked" significantly. That is, the bar moved in and out (mostly in - as in towards the center of the timber), giving me a very not square cut, and a timber with varying dimensions (in the worst part, I lost almost an inch of width). So, while I can use this timber for something else, I can no longer use it in the dimensions I was intending.

Are there any seasoned chainsaw mill veterans out there? Any in Western Mass?

After a long time of trying to get these to work well, Im thinking about changing my plans – no longer milling everything myself, but bringing some logs to a mill and letting then do those, and milling/hewing the rest (there still would be a significant number that I would be doing). I have questions related to that that I'll post somewhere else (see Post: Moving small amount of logs from land to mill and back). But, just wanted to see if anybody had any advice.

[mad murdock]

I have a Mark III, and have been very satisfied with the straightness of the cuts.  I have used a beam machine a long time ago, and if it is similar to the "mini-mill", I would not use it at all, unless I was roughing a beam that was not critical on dimension.  The beam machine did an "ok" job of making a beam, but it was not any good for slicing boards, as I had the same problem with the saw wanting to wander in the cut, there is not enough strength there to hold the saw firmly on track to keep it from meandering.  If you stick with the MarkII you will be pleased with the results.  Best results come from using a ripping chain (check baileys) filed at 0 to 5 degrees, and setup before the cut makes all the difference!  Use wedges to relieve the cut as you go, and you should do well.  I have milled quite a bit with my setup, and have changed my methods as I have learned what works best for what I am doing, this has saved me much time, and increased my productivity a bunch.  A couple things that I have done, is 1. have an axe handy to knock high spots off making it way easier to set up the first cut.  2.  after the first cut, I measure the log and adjust the mill to make the 2nd cut parallel to the first cut (slab opposite side of log), rather than flipping the log 90deg, and having to set up the 2nd cut the same as the first.  3. using a straight 2x6 screwed to the top of the log for first cut, rather than slabbing rails, much quicker setup and less dinking around.  These few things has sped my production up x 2 at least from the way I started doing it.  The last thing is making sure the chain is touched up and sharp.  Usually after 1 or 2 tanks of gas, I stop and run the file a couple swipes across each tooth to keep the chain sharp, this also keeps cutting to optimum.

[tyb525]

The problem with the mini-mill or beam makers I've seen, the saw pivots on a screw, and every change in the angle of the saw moves the saw in or out, giving you the wavy cut.

[Kevin]

I've never had a problem with the mini mill other than it isn't perfectly square to the cant vertically but when cutting boards with an edge usually less than two inches it hasn't been a problem.
You should never have wavy cuts because the mill rides on a  straight edge.
If there are wavy cuts it will be a problem with the rail being straight.
Try stringing the rail to see if it's straight.

[danf26]

Thanks for the responses,

I ran a chalk line down the rail (which is actually a straight 2x6 with a type of angled steel I bought from Granberg itself screwed on it) 5 minutes before it made the first of two wavy cuts, and everything was straight. It would be fine for boards 2" or less, but when you want 10", just a little walking can account for a big difference at the bottom. Im confused about the straight edge the mill rides on. The mill has the angled guide that rides on that angled steel I mentioned above at the edge of the guide board, and then a few inches past that theres a flat edge that that I suppose is supposed to ride flat on the guide board, but doesnt. See this picture I posted to see what I mean: --Photos MUST be in the Forestry Forum gallery!!!!!--/photos/danielcha/5570048188/. I dont know why it doesnt ride flat, but maybe thats my problem.

I dont actually know what screw youre referring to tyb525, but I would love more explanation.

Mr. Mad Murdock, I really appreciate your post. The Mark 2 is working great. Ive also come to some of the same conclusions as you with some of your advice. The problem for me with milling with just the Mark 2 is its been very difficult to get good, accurate cuts once Ive turned the log. Just like you said, I'll make cut 1 and 2 on top and bottom of my timber at the desired dimensions, but when I roll it 90 degreed to get cuts 3 and 4, its been such a time-suck, so get the guide board level and most importantly square to the first two cuts. The system Ive figure out involved imperfect wedges and putting in decking screws or long timberloks to both secure the guide board to the log and bring down high spots. As Ive figured it out right now its been a lot of work for a timber at the end that still has a lot of imperfections (although man am I proud!).

The squareness of the cut is very important as I will be using these for timber framing. I can work with not perfectly square timbers (snap line or center line layout as opposed to square to rule), but as a novice timber framer, I am not familiar with these techniques personally. While I know I can learn them, as a novice framer, I think I can cut the best frame by keeping things as simple as possible, and keeping myself in the skills I already have so I can develop them deeper. I've also been feeling that if Im going to work so hard (one day minimum for one timber) for a timber, which is time and energy (gasoline) intensive, why do it if the final product is simply passable, as opposed to superb? You know? These are my thoughts. If you agree, please let me know, and if you totatally dont, even more so let me know.

Thanks guys,
Dan

[Kevin]

The guide is what I was referring to as the straight edge.
If you are cutting timbers then square will be a problem.
I thought you were having wavy cuts.
One way to get the bar square to the cant is to put the saw and mill on the guide then put a framing square on the cant and compare the bar to the framing square.
Use shims or wedges under your guide board and bring the bar into square with the framing square.

[mad murdock]

One way to get the bar square to the cant is to put the saw and mill on the guide then put a framing square on the cant and compare the bar to the framing square.
Use shims or wedges under your guide board and bring the bar into square with the framing square.

Well said Kevin! That is the technique I use and I have had very good results.  I just use the square to make sure my guide is perfect to the first 2 cuts, and I have had very good results.  The other important thing to be sure of is that as you cut the log down, be sure you are supporting it enough to not have any sag in the piece you are working, as any sag will result in a corresponding cut on the other side, since the mill is following the top surface.  I have been able to cut probably 75 to 100 bd. ft/hr when I get cranking with my mill.  It has taken some time and trial and error to get the routine that works the most efficient for what I am doing, but once you find your groove, it isn't so bad.  It is like anything, there is a certain learning curve to figure out what works best and most effective, you just have to make a go of it, and learn along the way.  If time is a premium you don't want to pay, then maybe you would be better to have a portable miller come and cut your beams for you, that way, like you said, you can concentrate on mastering framing skills first, then milling later, or whatever trips your trigger.  For my needs, I am happy with the Granberg, as the cost was a minimum for what I am doing, if I had a need for more production, I would probably look more seriously at building a post frame, a bedway and a bigger saw to cut more, or go a swing blade mill.  I use a Husqvarna 372XP now, and it is a tad on the small end of things, but is pretty good for all around work.  What size saw are you using for your milling? That may be a big time suck for you if you are under-powered.  I wouldn't want to mill with anything smaller than my 372XP, that I can tell you straight up! I should qualify that last statement by saying I am milling douglas fir, I am sure if you were milling hardwood timbers, it would be a bit slower than I have experienced.

[captain_crunch]

When I used mine if I had power I made a Jig out of a 1X4 and edged with skillsaw as to let saw cool when cutting 1 & 2" for beams I cut top and bottom flat then rolled log 90 deg. If you try to use anything but a chain filed 0 deg the problems pile up. I just bought a Full Skip shain and attacked it with round file to get tooth straight.A Sthill 075 or 076 ran a 36" bar on mine

[simplicityguy92]

did the o degree cutters cut faster or smoother then 10 degree

[mad murdock]

did the o degree cutters cut faster or smoother then 10 degree

When I got my ripping chains form bailey's new, they come at about a 10deg. angle.  Through research and trial and error on douglas fir, the 0 deg angle works best in production and in the end result.  More angle will cut faster if you are slicing at an angle, and not straight across the grain, but the end finish will not be quite as smooth.  My boards come off as good as or better than any bandmill I have seen.  If I push the saw too hard, I can get a rough cut, and it will speed things up a little, but the finish is not as nice.

[mtngun]

theres a flat edge that that I suppose is supposed to ride flat on the guide board, but doesnt. See this picture I posted to see what I mean: --Photos MUST be in the Forestry Forum gallery!!!!!--/photos/danielcha/5570048188/. I dont know why it doesnt ride flat, but maybe thats my problem.

I'd love to see that picture, because it does sound like something is wrong.     Either you aren't pushing the mill against the guide board, or else the chain is cutting crooked.

[jander3]

Mini mill works fine.  I rip a flat side with the Alaskan Mill, then install the Mini Mill guide; works fine.   If I try and set up the mini mill without a flat side, need to shim and level it. 





I've sometimes had trouble with the saw pulling, every time it was a chain that was not sharp.   Sharpened up the chain and it worked fine.   

However, I cut faster and more accurate with the TK 1220.

[simplicityguy92]

hey jander3 what degree are the cutters on ur chain and what model saw is that

[Warbird]

I'm interested in the saw, too.  Almost looks like a 360?

[tyb525]

Looks like a 360 to me

[jander3]

360.  Nothing fancy on this chain.  25 or 30 degrees.  

On the alaskan mill, I use a skip chain, works well.  

On occasion, I buy square ground chain, that works very well and cuts quick.  

Normally, just sharpen up the chain as I would for cutting.  

Sometimes I use the 290, but I find a little more power works better.

[Brucer]

My first "sawmill" was a Granberg mini mill. I cut all the timbers for my woodshed with it and they are perfectly square. Establishing the opening cut was a pain -- lots of shims and wedges and so on.

The

... The mill has the angled guide that rides on that angled steel I mentioned above at the edge of the guide board, and then a few inches past that theres a flat edge that that I suppose is supposed to ride flat on the guide board, but doesnt. ...

Yes, that flat edge is supposed to ride flat on the guide board. If it doesn't your wood won't be square. You can see how it's supposed to look in the picture posted by Jander3. The cutting action of the chain will try to pivot the outside of the guide up off the board, so you need to control that. If your chain is sharp and you aren't pushing the saw too hard, you should be able to keep the guide flat on the board with just a little sideways pressure from your left arm.

One thing I did differently from what you see in the photo is to angle the power head back toward me so the end of the bar was ahead of the power head. That had a tendency to pull the saw gently into the cut.

I found the same thing as Mad Murdock. A zero degree chain angle worked best for me.

[medic]

  When I was using a beam machine chainsaw mill I discovered that you had to keep the chain razor sharp to get good cuts in a reasonable amount of time.  When the chain goes from razor sharp to just sharp it's time to swap chains or resharpen.  Also, do you have the correct tension on the chain? 

[Warbird]

Thanks for the info, guys.

[danf26]

Im also running a 372 XP, with a rip chain I bought from Granberg. Using a Granbergs own File-N-Joint guide, I feel Im able to sharpen the chain accurately to Granbergs specifications (sets of scoring cutters and clearing cutters - scoring cutters filed at 20 degree angles and 10 degree pitch, clearing cutters filed at 0 degree angles and 0 degree pitch. The angles were specified by Granberg, I guessed on the pitch).

Im milling Northern Red Oak right now, but also have milled Eastern Hemlock, will mill some Eastern White Pine, and some Black Cherry.

I posted some pictures online of the mill, and I plan on getting some pictures up soon of it on the guide board. You can see the them at www. flickr. com /photos/danielcha (you have to copy and paste this link without the spaces, it was the only way I could figure out how to put the link on this post without the text being changed to Photos MUST be in the Forestry Forum gallery!!!!!Photos MUST be in the Forestry Forum gallery!!!!!. When you look at the pictures, by clicking on them and looking at them individually you can see notes I made on them. There are pictures of the "bent part" I was referring to, which is on a part of the mill that doesnt even run on the guide board, so maybe its not all that important. The flat edge isnt perfectly flat, but close.  The effect that almost flat has on me, is which part do I keep flush against the guide board to give me my square cut?

I dont know what the correct tension is. How tight/loose do all of you keep your chains when using the mills?

[Kevin]

Did you buy that mill used or new?
Pull on the chain mid bar, the driver should almost clear the groove but not clear it..
Don't tighten a hot chain, when it cools the chain will tighten up again.

[danf26]

Mill is used, and lent to me by a friend. If all or some of this information would have been explained in a instruction manual or something of the like, man, would that have been useful.

Thanks for the chain info.

[Kevin]

That mill looks modified, I wouldn't expect great results from using it.

[mad murdock]

I tension my chain just to the point that it does not hang loose on the bottom side of the bar, i.e. a very slight slack when pulled by the fingers, but it snaps back onto the bar.  Depends on the length of your bar, and size of chain to some extent, but you don't want it so tight that it causes heat build up, and you don't want it so loose that you are running the risk of throwing the chain every other time you throttle the saw.  I hope that the description helps, kind of hard to describe for me, as I have not thought too deeply on the subject. It's only been about 30+years since I first started running a saw in the woods   Still got all my limbs and phalanges though, so it can't be all bad. :D

[terrifictimbersllc]

The guideline of being able to pull it about so far from the bar, or whether it snaps back in etc,  is very subjective.  It depends on how tight you grip it and how strong your fingers are.  After running chain slabbers a fair amount I have concluded the best guideline is to have it as loose as possible, but not so loose it comes off while you're milling.   If with a chain saw, I would guess that if you watch whatever chain is visible, like on that part of the bar which is not in the cut (  ), you would see some looseness or "slapping" of the chain if things are good but not enough where the chain is soon to de-rail.

[danf26]

OK, guys. So pictures are up. Here's the link to my pictures regarding the Mini Mill: OFFSITE PHOTOS ARE NOT ALLOWED! So, basically the pictures tell the whole story. In taking the pictures, I realized much more about what was wrong, so I thank you all because it was knowing you guys would be looking at them that helped me diagnose.

In the process, I learned more about what wasnt right with the mill, and how to position it to give it the squarest cut. And, you'll be able to see the cut is pretty square, but totally uniform thruout. But definitely within a range Im happy about.

The ironic part, is this mill broke on me 7/8s of the way thru the cut. One of the screws broke in half. So, I imagine a brand spanking new Mini Mill might be in my future.

I hope you look thru the pictures, as a lot of them have descriptions and notes on them. Also, what is that blue stain on my freshly milled green oak?

Thank you all, seriously.