F250 question

chevytaHOE5674 · February 11, 2013, 04:45:17 PM

Cypress he has a 1992 which is not a powerstroke it is an IDI motor. There is no PCM on the motor it is all mechanically controlled. All the motor requires is 12v to the injector pump to run...

jcbrotz · February 11, 2013, 06:04:38 PM

I am not sure on yours but don't ferds use the oil to pop the injectors? If so thick dino oil will make them start hard and slow. Go synthetic and it will help alot, it will help everything else also.

Brian_Rhoad · February 11, 2013, 07:01:52 PM

Sounds like the injector pump looses its prime.

s grinder · February 11, 2013, 07:30:22 PM

powerstrokes need oil to pop injectors

thenorthman · February 11, 2013, 11:35:20 PM

If the caps and return lines were the culprit there would be signs of leakage, weeping and diesel all over the intake and what not, its exceedingly unlikely that a pressurized system would be sucking air... kinda hard to create a vacuum at 60 psi.

And just cause 3 glow plugs work don't mean the rest of em are, right now I know I have one bad one(its also the hardest one to get to), and it can be a pain to start in anything under 25-30 degrees, and just plain hard otherwise.

Mark K · February 12, 2013, 05:46:55 AM

I had a 91 7.3 IDI up till a couple months ago. Bought it with 100k on it and ran it till 275k. First year I had it my glow plug relay fried. I used a selinoid hooked to a push button on the dash. Hold the button down for 10 seconds and start cranking. Ran it that way for years. Put in three sets of glow plugs over the years. I used autolites. Never heard of them being 6 volt. If you have a couple bad glow plugs it wont start. I had trouble with mine starting and I ended up replacing the O-rings and lines on the injectors. Made a big difference.

chevytaHOE5674 · February 12, 2013, 08:15:21 AM

Quote from: thenorthman on February 11, 2013, 11:35:20 PM
If the caps and return lines were the culprit there would be signs of leakage, weeping and diesel all over the intake and what not, its exceedingly unlikely that a pressurized system would be sucking air... kinda hard to create a vacuum at 60 psi.

It is VERY common for them to suck air in. Once you shut the truck off the small leaks allow the fuel to drain out of the injector lines. Once the lines are empty you are left with an air pocket. Like I said go to Oilburners.net and read up there are hundreds of members who have had hard starting issues and then put new return line caps on and the problem was fixed.

thenorthman · February 12, 2013, 09:58:25 AM

the point being if they are leaking there would be diesel all over the engine right? So unless there is diesel all over the engine why waste money on the wrong fix?

chevytaHOE5674 · February 12, 2013, 11:06:33 AM

I've had them leak and be dry on the outside. When running they would swell and not leak, once shut off they draw air in. They are cheapo plastic caps that over time just fail.

We are talking a 1992 with unknown miles, and unknown maintenance history there is no "wrong fix", everything you do can only help. Having had over a dozen IDI powered fords in my time the first thing I would do is return lines and o-rings, follow that up with manual push button glow plugs.

I have a 6.9L beater farm truck that has 4 functioning glow plugs ATM and it fired right up yesterday morning at 18 degrees with nothing more than cycle of the plugs. But the fuel system is all new.

Cypressstump · February 12, 2013, 01:42:44 PM

Quote from: chevytaHOE5674 on February 11, 2013, 04:45:17 PM
Cypress he has a 1992 which is not a powerstroke it is an IDI motor. There is no PCM on the motor it is all mechanically controlled. All the motor requires is 12v to the injector pump to run...

Opps,,,,,,,,, thanks for clearing that little oversight up fer me... :

UN Hooker · February 12, 2013, 10:57:08 PM

I bought a new "84" 6.9 and went through all the above issues many times. Finally got sick of it and did a permanent "fix". Now it has just under 500K and still runs great.

thenorthman · February 12, 2013, 11:14:24 PM

here's my thinking... I'm not a know it all but I don't believe most of the junk on the internut...

1: if the caps and return lines are leaking the injection pump would overcome any air within a few rotations of the engine, unless the pump was bad and then there would be other issues, the lines just arn't that long, it may be hard starting but it will start, as of now its not starting at all unless its warmed up.

2: its making smoke (hopefully white...) which tells me the injectors are doing their job.

3: no glow plugs no heat no fire... very few automotive diesels will start without the aid of glow plugs or some other form of heat.(ether, heat gun, block heater)

4: it is possible to by pass the glow plug relay and use a push button, but you still need a solenoid to make it work so just fix the relay it comes with a new solenoid anyway, its the two fat wires that go to the solenoid that are 6v. so a guy can't just run a hot from the batteries, which is implied...

5: as earlier stated if the relay is bad, indicator light still comes on making a guy think that everything is working even if its not.

6: unless you skip the relay, one bad plug messes up the reading to the relay, making the plugs stay hot for a shorter time then is necessary.

7: leaking is leaking where does the fuel go if its not weeping out somewhere? dripping into the cylinder? or does it go where all dogs go when they die? My thinking would lead to it going somewhere visible, or somewhere very bad...

As for me this weekend (if I get one) I plan on fixing the rest of my glow plugs. which should make it start without a hiccup, fuel be damned.

sprucebunny · February 13, 2013, 06:22:48 AM

You can tell if it's a fuel leak because when it does start, it will surge.
Mine usually goes to higher than normal RPM and then dies. Have to crank it again. I've given up using it in winter not that I did much because it's a southern truck with zero rust. But it does it in the summer, too.

Love that plan, UN Hooker !! Wish I had the time and $$. But then again, I've had a couple of bad experiences getting parts for the Cummins fuel systems.

Hope you find the problem, Ken.

chevytaHOE5674 · February 13, 2013, 06:51:52 AM

The fuel doesn't mysteriously disappear, it drains back to the tank. The stock lift pump is designed to pump fuel not air, and it doesn't really work at pumping air, that why if you ever run one empty you can run your batteries dead before the fuel system will prime itself, also why you prefill the fuel filters. Every heard of priming a well pump before it will suck water???? Personally all of my IDI's are running electric fuel pumps with the stock lift pump gone from the system and the hole in the block plugged, because I had the rubber diaphragm in a lift pump rupture and fill the crankcase with diesel fuel and it left it stranded on the side of the road. Electric fuel pump allows the fuel system to prime itself after filter changes, or if there is any small leaks in the system, without draining the batteries.

I don't know everything either, and don't believe everything on the internet. But if you search around there are guys out there that have maintained entire fleets of IDI's since their inception in the early 80's, so I tend to believe them.

I'm not saying that he shouldn't make sure the glow plugs are working correctly. I'm saying that just as important as working glow plugs is a fuel system that is in tip top shape. Fuel return lines and caps possibly from 1992 aren't helping at all and if they are from 1992 they are almost guaranteed to be in need of replacement.

Edit: I forgot all about the rubber "olives" at the hard fuel line connections on the motor. Ford used a flared steel line with a rubber "olive" on it to seal. These are notorious for drying out and causing an air leak. There is one at the back of the motor where the return lines meet the hard line, also ones on the filter to injector pump line.

thenorthman · February 13, 2013, 10:41:06 PM

I told myself I was done responding to this thread,

Read a Book

Chilton and Haynes both have a good reputation.

Ok now I'm done.

timberlinetree · February 14, 2013, 04:59:23 AM

Bypassed the lift pump with electric fuel pump suck n air no problem

kiko · February 14, 2013, 08:52:54 AM

This engine should have a mechanical lift pump on the front of the engine. Installing a fuel check valve like on a detroit, where the line from tank goes into the lift pump will likely take care of your issue.

pigpen · February 17, 2013, 08:36:13 PM

I have a 99 f250 w/7.3 powerstroke also, I'm pretty sure that the 92s are same valve cover and gasket as 99s, which the wiring for the glow plugs are integrated into or through the gasket of the valve cover. A quick call to a ford garage could verify this, The proper way to check your glow plugs is to unplug the harness going into the valve cover(pointing toward the center of the motor and centered in valve cover gasket from front to back) hook up your ground of a test light or multimeter to pos. post of battery, and the outside 4 pins on valve cover gasket wire connection are your glow plugs. If the light lights up, glow plug and circuit is good, if not, glow plug or wire is bad. If memory serves, there are 9 pins on each valve cover gasket wire connection... so outside 2 on each end of each gasket are the ones to test... best of luck!

chevytaHOE5674 · February 17, 2013, 09:11:14 PM

A 92 is not the same as a 99. On the 92 the glow plugs go through the head between the valve cover and intake manifold. The glow plugs on a 1992 have a simple 1 wire harness going to them. Newer than 1994.5 is a DI powerstroke and not an IDI like a 1992.