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Sawmill Building - Enclosed or Open

Started by YellowHammer, March 12, 2019, 01:08:43 AM

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YellowHammer

I thought I had this one figured out, I was going to get a red iron, open sided 40x60 or so building put up, with 20 feet between side wall columns so I could move logs and lumber in and out as needed.  This would provide good ventilation for my diesel mill and plenty of room for the edger, log deck and conveyors. I could bring material in through the walls or end openings.

However, my current sawmill shed is open sided on two sides, and with all the rain lately, a wet mess with the wind blowing the rain sideways seemingly from all directions  Also, it's cold and windy in the winter, hot in the summer.  So I'm thinking of building a conventional, fully walled building with a big 20 foot wide door or three, similar to our current warehouse, and move everything inside there. This would present problems with ventilation and sawdust (I would have a blower) but I was wondering what your experiences and choices would be, pro or con.  

Seems like it would be more comfortable but more problematic.  What do you think?  I've done lots of searches and seen lots of nice buildings, open and closed, but am wondering about the actual practicality of sawing and edging inside a building.  Also, is a 40x60 big enough?  Dirt floor to save my feet, or concrete, which is easy to clean?
YellowHammerisms:

Take steps to save steps.

If it won't roll, its not a log; it's still a tree.  Sawmills cut logs, not trees.

Kiln drying wood: When the cookies are burned, they're burned, and you can't fix them.

Sawing is fun for the first couple million boards.

Be smarter than the sawdust

terrifictimbersllc

DJ Hoover, Terrific Timbers LLC,  Mystic CT Woodmizer Million Board Foot Club member. 2019 LT70 Super Wide 55 Yanmar,  LogRite fetching arch, WM BMS250 sharpener/BMT250 setter.  2001 F350 7.3L PSD 6 spd manual ZF 4x4 Crew Cab Long Bed

customsawyer

When you get the perfect building figured out. Please let me know. Doesn't seem to matter what I build it is never big enough. Things never flow as easy as in my planning stage. Operating in a controlled environment sounds great. Walking on concrete all day not so much. Having a nice building without concrete doesn't sound like to good idea.    
Two LT70s, Nyle L200 kiln, 4 head Pinheiro planer, 30" double surface Cantek planer, Lucas dedicated slabber, Slabmizer, and enough rolling stock and chainsaws to keep it all running.
www.thecustomsawyer.com

stavebuyer

Floor=concrete. I tried dense grade for easier walking and it is but the packed sawdust picks it up even if you hand scoop.
Walls=2 sides open and hang shade cloth on the others. The light colored shade cloth was about the best money I ever spent. I figured it would help with the dreaded July sun but never expected how much it would help with winter wind and rain. Stays light and dry inside. Hang it like a shower curtain and its out of the way in seconds.



 

longtime lurker

Closed sheds are loud... Sound can't get out, and there's no earmuffs can dull the noise of a working mill in a tight space.

 If possible I'd site so the prevailing weather side was to one end and close that in, but other than that shadecloth awnings will keep the worst of it from blowing through. 
The quickest way to make a million dollars with a sawmill is to start with two million.

Southside

I would go open side with roll down curtains like those in a dairy free stall.  You really don't want walls come August. That is how I designed mine, if it ever stops raining long enough I will get to actually complete it too. My main open span saw area is 36' x 48' but the mill will go out in it's own "dog nose" area 20' x 30' with the deck feeding it. This way it's at one end and lumber travels in a linear fashion from the mill into the main area for edging, Re-saw, stacking, etc leaving plenty of movement room.  Keeps the diesel and worst noise further away this way too and I can saw with the main part buttoned up without worry. 
Franklin buncher and skidder
JD Processor
Woodmizer LT Super 70 and LT35 sawmill, KD250 kiln, BMS 250 sharpener and setter
Riehl Edger
Woodmaster 725 and 4000 planner and moulder
Enough cows to ensure there is no spare time.
White Oak Meadows

moodnacreek

Southside beat me to it. a curtain barn for the roll up openings. But here is an idea; everything in there raised off the floor on the least and smallest legs. Have all baseboard corners radii [curverd , not square].  In an indoor sawmill you will spend a considerable amount of time cleaning up and I use a leaf blower every day after a quick sweep. Square corners and machines without feet mess up the process.

Magicman

Quote from: YellowHammer on March 12, 2019, 01:08:43 AMDirt floor to save my feet, or concrete
You have plenty of recommendation regarding your building, so I will only address your feet.  Dirt will not save your feet, but proper boot insoles will.  A podiatrist (foot doctor) prescribed mine and they were ~$40.
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

WV Sawmiller

   Definitely concrete floor for easier maintenance. I like the shade dry option for a couple of walls to keep the rain from blowing in.

   Might consider a gap of a foot or so at the bottom so you can blow or wash the sawdust, dirt and dust out for easy maintenance too. I'd keep the maintenance options and requirements in mind for everything you build.
Howard Green
WM LT35HDG25(2015) , 2011 4WD F150 Ford Lariat PU, Kawasaki 650 ATV, Stihl 440 Chainsaw, homemade logging arch (w/custom built rear log dolly), JD 750 w/4' wide Bushhog brand FEL

Dad always said "You can shear a sheep a bunch of times but you can only skin him once

wisconsitom

I'm pondering the same issue.  When I build my pole shed, I want to have a living space area, with small bedroom, kitchenette, bathroom, and then an open, uninsulated shed area for where the mill may go.  As such, I too want a 20-foot opening....likely a sliding shed door...to obtain this desired opening.  I am hopeful that the required header for so large an opening will not be cost-prohibitive.

I like the dairy barn curtain idea, but I want stuff secured when I'm not around.  I plan to store a bit of equipment in the same area as where the mill might end up.  We're going to need locking doors.

20 feet is the longest material I expect to need to be handling, once I start sawing up beveled siding from my larch trees.  I would not want to limit this dimension, as certain customers are sure to want longer lengths.

tom
Ask me about hybrid larch!

DARRELL1972

I am going with a pole barn buiding,half siding with dirt floor. We saw very little from September to March so we want shade and some breeze while being under cover during rain showers.
95lt40hd
74 8k windham forklift
2018 eg100

Darrel

A wood floor is also an option. Not nearly as hard as concrete and way easier to keep clean than dirt. Expensive, but if you have a sawmill that will make it a bit more affordable. 
1992 LT40HD

If I don't pick myself up by my own bootstraps, nobody else will.

Percy

My 40x100 opensided building was a compromise between cost and function/durability. MY LT70 is on a 35x10 cement pad but is elevated about 5 feet with a steel substucture. The rest of the mill has a wooden floor built heavy enough to accept the weight of my all wheel steer bobcat(aprox 8500 lbs) and lumber when I need to keep it out of the rain/snow. I would love to have walls of some sort that were moveable but  it just isnt in the cards. Southsides roll up curtains idea is something I will ponder. 

This was yesterday
 



Construction phase(2015)


 

I would like to have an acre of roof....but if I somehow did, I would need two acres.... 

GOLDEN RULE : The guy with the gold, makes the rules.

Darrel

What do roofs and clamps have in common ?  You never have enough of either. 
1992 LT40HD

If I don't pick myself up by my own bootstraps, nobody else will.

Crusarius

Hangar door all 4 sides :) Open the doors when you are working close them when you are done.

Definitely concrete floors.

I do wonder why you are not electric yet. for the money you could sell that diesel for you could replace 2 engines with electric motors. Maybe more.

timbercrack

Me and my buddy currently building a 20x40 with 20'opening on one end and 14' opening on the other. 24' openings on both of the long walls set closer to the 20' opening end...
Timberking 1600 owner.

Brad_bb

With my experience milling both inside a heated shop and outside in winter, I'll take milling inside all day long.  I'm going electric soon too.  We've had enough ventilation of the gas engine with as often as we open and close the overhead door, but it's not ideal, hence why I'm going electric.  The biggest advantage is no wind to blow dust in your face.  That has been a huge problem when I take the mill onsite and mill outside.  In summer we have an industrial fan blowing from start of the bed town towards the end on the operator.  Works just fine.  We bring logs in through the 20' wide overhead door.  In summer we keep it open.  In winter we heat the inside and only open to go in or out with the forklift.
Anything someone can design, I can sure figure out how to fix!
If I say it\\\\\\\'s going to take so long, multiply that by at least 3!

Hilltop366

I wonder what the economics of a small door or opening with a log deck feeding a conveyer to bring the log in length wise verse the extra large door?

If you were going to have a log deck anyway it would be mostly large door and header verses conveyer.

YellowHammer

I may go electric in the future, but I don't have any 3 phase except by phase converters, which I use already and are maxed out.  So I'd need to pull more single phase, new infrastructure, and new phase converter.  My current mill is diesel, and I figured when it died or gave me any trouble I'd convert to electric, but I think it knows that, so has been on its best behavior.

I like the curtains but I wonder how long they would last?

I really like the mill sheds and buildings with the huge wooded post and beam construction.  They look great, but nobody around here builds them and I just don't the time anymore.  They would give me the rustic look I'd like to have.

Our other building has a concrete floor, but wow, did that cost some money.  6 inches thick, truck after truck after truck.  I tried an experiment under the shed wing where I keep my edger.  I went to one of out hills and dug down to true Alabama red clay fill dirt and backfilled with it, building up a clay floor, and then hosed it down and let it settle.  Its as hard as a rock and I routinely blow out under the edger with a leaf blower, and the clay just sits there.

I hadn't thought of the airplane hanger type building, where basically the walls raise up.  

Once of the things I like about the full open structure is that if I need to expand, I can just add another section.  Customsawyer has a few dozen acres under roof (it seems like it anyway) and he was able to put new additions of pretty easy, I believe.  

I'm not sure how I could do the wood floors, around here, if a hunk of wood is near the dirt, the termites and beetles are in it almost immediately.  I'd have to use pressure treated wood.  I think I watched some of Bibbymans old video and he used wood floors.

Noise would be an issue, but I wear hearing protection.  I don't see how anything could be louder than that screaming edger. 

One thing for sure, whether open or closed building, the local Fire Marshall and my insurance company watch me like a hawk, since we also have retail spaces with lots of foot traffic.  So cleanliness and cleaning are important.    
YellowHammerisms:

Take steps to save steps.

If it won't roll, its not a log; it's still a tree.  Sawmills cut logs, not trees.

Kiln drying wood: When the cookies are burned, they're burned, and you can't fix them.

Sawing is fun for the first couple million boards.

Be smarter than the sawdust

Southside

Quote from: YellowHammer on March 12, 2019, 03:09:29 PMI like the curtains but I wonder how long they would last?


20 years and counting with less than agreeable cows on our old place.  What about dead sand?  I was actually thinking about flooring this weekend when edging a pile of siding.  My plan had been to do concrete, but running that siding made me realize that I would probably end up matting all of the concrete just to keep walking at the end of the day, so spend more money on top of a pile of money going that route.  Then it hit me that we had actually done away with concrete in the loafing barn and gone to all dead sand with mats over it, the stuff packs hard enough that it won't move but still affords cushion, it was very obvious with the improved leg and hoof conditions that there is a marked difference.  Cleaning is not an issue and if you had to water it down the sand remains pourus.  I am going to take a hard look at going that route here instead.  
Franklin buncher and skidder
JD Processor
Woodmizer LT Super 70 and LT35 sawmill, KD250 kiln, BMS 250 sharpener and setter
Riehl Edger
Woodmaster 725 and 4000 planner and moulder
Enough cows to ensure there is no spare time.
White Oak Meadows

redbeard

We're in same boat figuring out a covered area. Finding out it's getting longer  if your mill can cut 24' long you need 3 x that length and alot of real estate around building for fork lift too get in on all sides.
Whidbey Woodworks and Custom Milling  2019 Cooks AC 3662T High production band mill and a Hud-son 60 Diesel wide cut bandmill  JD 2240 50hp Tractor with 145 loader IR 1044 all terrain fork lift  Cooks sharp

YellowHammer

@Southside logger , what is dead sand?  Where do you get it? Just regular old sand?

Interestingly enough, after my rip replacement, I put down a nice big piece of rubber floor matting about 3/4" thick with 1 inch holes in it, I forgot where I got it, but it definitely makes a difference on my legs.  

Our clay is so hard that when they built our other building, they couldn't drill through it, they had to cut it with an excavator.  I'd brought in several feet in some areas and it will scuff with a shine when its walked on enough.

I'd really like to have a huge open spaced timber frame structure, old school.  Kind of like how Jack Daniels, up the road, builds things.  New stuff made to look old.  Surprisingly, we've more than one customer tell us they prefer the look of our old place, the old barn, over our shiny new building.

I appreciate all the input, some really good ideas.  Thanks.
 


YellowHammerisms:

Take steps to save steps.

If it won't roll, its not a log; it's still a tree.  Sawmills cut logs, not trees.

Kiln drying wood: When the cookies are burned, they're burned, and you can't fix them.

Sawing is fun for the first couple million boards.

Be smarter than the sawdust

Peter Drouin

Mines only 24' wide x 100 one way, With most of it open I like my 45' door. All concrete floor 6" thick. 
All wood post some ATT poles I had some. The rest 16' Hemlock logs.
When I put it up I made the 45' door side facing do South for the low sun in the winter. Sommer time the sun is high. 12' top of the door.  The ridge pole is 24' off the floor vent on the ends.
The board and baton back side keeps the Northwind off me. I don't have sawdust in the face.
To me, the way the mill barn is facing is just as important too,

The snow and rain will come in 6" or so, the overhang is important.
What works up here in the cold North.


 


 


 


 


 


 


And don't hit a woodpile with a cat that has claws.


 


 

smiley_big-grin2

 
A&P saw Mill LLC.
45' of Wood Mizer, cutting since 1987.
License NH softwood grader.

Southside

Well as far as regular old sand it depends on what your regular old sand is.  Under a microscope dead sand is jagged, not round, so it locks together, packs and stays put, but unlike clay will drain.  Beach sand tends to be more round particles so it won't stay in one place very well when you step on it, which is why running on the beach is so much fun.  Once packed our dead sand floor was solid, but not hard if that makes sense.  You could stab into it with a tool, but a hoof would not cut in.  I would think local quarry would know if they have it or not.    

Our red clay will get hard like that, especially if it has been run over, tread on, etc when wet and allowed to dry - it's brick material for a reason.  But get it wet enough and it turns to grease on the surface and then soup that sticks to everything, almost like gumbo clay out on the high plains.  
Franklin buncher and skidder
JD Processor
Woodmizer LT Super 70 and LT35 sawmill, KD250 kiln, BMS 250 sharpener and setter
Riehl Edger
Woodmaster 725 and 4000 planner and moulder
Enough cows to ensure there is no spare time.
White Oak Meadows

Southside

Peter - Which was worse - backing into the pile or the sound of pulling away after?  :D
Franklin buncher and skidder
JD Processor
Woodmizer LT Super 70 and LT35 sawmill, KD250 kiln, BMS 250 sharpener and setter
Riehl Edger
Woodmaster 725 and 4000 planner and moulder
Enough cows to ensure there is no spare time.
White Oak Meadows

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